People Who Want to Become Increasingly Free

Once upon a time, in a certain village, there lived a young man named Jiyuji, or 'Freedom Child.' Every day, Jiyuji wished to become 'freer and freer.'
But the freedom Jiyuji imagined was not just about doing whatever he pleased.
True freedom is living honestly according to one's own heart.
But it also means valuing the freedom of others.
Breaking out of my own shell, one step at a time,
while being careful not to hurt anyone else.
With that thought in mind, Jiyuji began to change little by little.
First, he started by waking up early in the morning.
Instead of waiting for someone to wake me, I will choose to wake up myself.
Next, he started walking on new paths.
Let's look at scenery I don't know, not just the usual roads.
And he also began to challenge himself with new work.
Let's try things I had decided I couldn't do.
Seeing Jiyuji change, the villagers also began to change.
An elderly farmer began growing new crops,
a shy girl began to hum songs,
and a craftsman began to try new techniques.
One day, a child asked Jiyuji,
How can I become freer?
Jiyuji replied,
Freedom is something that expands one step at a time.
But what is important is that those steps do not take away someone else's freedom.
That is how, little by little, but surely,
we can become free.
Later, Jiyuji said this:
Becoming free is like an endless journey. But the process itself is what is fun. I am freer today than I was yesterday, and I can be even freer tomorrow. You just have to believe that and keep walking.
And so, the proverb 'The path to freedom is opened one step at a time' spread from this village.
And they lived happily ever after.
That was the preface to the 967th 'Namennin Interview' (Interview with a Nameless Person), written at 4:58 AM on December 5, 2024!!!!!!!
[Preface: qbc / Yasuhiro Kuribayashi (Writer, Organizer of Namennin Interview)]

Joining us this time is Okuken, a psychologist!

Age: Early 30s
Gender: Male
Occupation: Clinical Psychologist / Certified Public Psychologist

Current status: Work is a place to share things that I think are good.

Kujiragumo:
What kind of work does Okuken-san do now?

Okuken:
Well, let's see, I do work that involves being close to people's hearts.
I mainly do counseling.

Kujiragumo:
Counseling, I see. Is a qualification required to do that work?

Okuken:
You don't actually need a qualification for counseling itself. For example, you know how there are 'seitai' (bodywork) practitioners in the world? You can be a seitai practitioner without a license. Some people do it without qualifications, like 'so-and-so style,' some have physical therapist licenses, and some have judo therapist licenses. There are people with national qualifications, and there are seitai practitioners working without any qualifications.
In the same way, for counseling, there are psychologists with national qualifications, people with private counseling certifications, and people working without any qualifications at all. That's the kind of field it is. Counseling itself, that is.

Kujiragumo:
Then, how are the qualifications you mentioned earlier, Clinical Psychologist and Certified Public Psychologist, utilized in practice?

Okuken:
Generally speaking, in order to provide psychological support in public institutions like medical facilities, welfare services, or school settings, it is much easier to find work if you have those qualifications.

*Both Clinical Psychologists and Certified Public Psychologists generally require a graduate degree, but Clinical Psychologist is a private qualification, while Certified Public Psychologist is a national qualification.

Also, it is said that psychologists have four main duties.

The first is psychological support, which is what we call counseling. In some cases, it also involves facilitating group work.

The second is assessment, which involves evaluating the factors behind why a person is struggling.
There are many tests, such as those for developmental disorders, depression, and so on. Assessment, which is the second duty, involves using those tests and observing the person's behavior during counseling to understand their state.

The third is community support. This involves delivering mental health information to the general public as part of our professional duties.
Recently, various SNS tools have emerged, and I believe there are forms of community support that can be conducted through them.
I currently post various things on note under the name 'Psychologist Okuken,' and using that name to share mental health information while identifying as a Clinical Psychologist and Certified Public Psychologist is actually part of that.

The fourth is research. Both Clinical Psychologists and Certified Public Psychologists are required to go to graduate school.
Therefore, we analyze data using statistics and write master's theses. So, there is also an aspect of being a researcher. Not just a clinician.

So, Clinical Psychology and Certified Public Psychology have a very strong scientific aspect.
Clinical Psychologists and Certified Public Psychologists are defined by taking data properly, producing results through statistics, interpreting them, and strictly practicing only what is evidence-based. So, taking research data and analyzing it is also one of our duties.
However, in reality, one person's capacity is limited to N=1.
People in clinical practice have a heavier weight on clinical work, and those in universities or research institutions have a stronger focus on research. I hope that field clinicians and researchers remaining at universities can join hands to conduct research.

Kujiragumo:
Thank you. So, is what you are doing now primarily the first one, counseling?

Okuken:
That's right. I also do the second one, assessment and psychological testing. I've been doing a lot of work with adult developmental disorders lately.
I use note for the third one, community support.

Kujiragumo:
I'd like to ask about this too, but are you employed at a place like a psychiatric clinic?

Okuken:
That's right. Currently, I work as a contractor at a counseling office that partners with a psychosomatic clinic. In practice, I'm a freelancer.

Kujiragumo:
Thank you. When did you start working as a psychologist?

Okuken:
This is my sixth year in the workforce.

Kujiragumo:
So, have you been doing this ever since you graduated from graduate school?

Okuken:
Yes, that's right. Although, I've probably changed jobs about three times. I've been at my current place since this fiscal year.
Even though I've changed jobs, I feel like the core of being a clinical psychologist and a certified public psychologist has remained the same, and only the setting has changed.

Kujiragumo:
What does this job mean to you, Okuken-san?

Okuken:
Hmm... to put it in somewhat abstract terms, it's like a place to express my way of life, something like that.
To be a bit more concrete, whether in my private life or at work, I really love sharing various things with people.
What I mean by that is, for example, if I find a delicious restaurant, I'll say 'this place is good,' or if I see a nice view, I'll say 'this is a pretty nice view,' or if I find an interesting anime, I'll say 'this anime is fun.'

It's like that, and I think it's boring to keep things I think are good just to myself, so I want to share them with others. When I share them and the other person has the same kind of experience, excitement, or emotional movement as I did, I feel 'I'm happy too!'—that kind of feeling is how I enjoy my life.

The work I do is an extension of that. What I mean by this is, there are various reasons why I became a psychologist. I had a period of about two years where I was bedridden. During that time, I explored various things in my own way before I was a psychologist, encountered psychology, studied clinical psychology, and became a clinical psychologist to practice it, and in that process, I worked on healing myself first.
In that process, there were things that were good and things that weren't very useful, and there were plenty of both, but I only share the things that I thought were good for me in my work. Therefore, work is a place to share the things I think are good.That's what work is to me.
So, sharing mental health information on note is also part of that. The tools for that expression are counseling, where I convey things through words in a counseling setting, and sometimes I do group work or seminars, so speaking in front of people is also part of that. Expressing it through text media on note is also part of it, and if you raise the level of abstraction, the essence of what I'm doing hasn't changed at all.
It's just sharing the things I think are good, that's all.

Kujiragumo:
Yes, thank you. What percentage of fulfillment do you feel in your current job?

Okuken:
Fulfillment? Hmm, I wonder. It's probably not even half, is it?

Kujiragumo:
Is there a reason for that?

Okuken:
Well, it's because there are so many more things I want to do.

Kujiragumo:
What kind of things are those?

Okuken:
Let's see... essentially, what I want to do is share the things I think are good, so I want to express my own emotions. I'm doing that now, too.

For example, if someone has played the piano, they express their emotions through the piano, if someone can sing, they express their experiences by putting them into lyrics, and if someone is good at drawing, they express their inner conflicts or energy by 'BAM!!' drawing them.

Whatever the job is, I think everyone is an expresser. I think everyone is an artist.

In that regard, there is this pent-up energy swirling around my chest all the time. I have a feeling that it hasn't been fully released yet. I haven't fully exhausted that energy with what I'm doing now.

Even though I post on note every day, it feels like I haven't fully released it yet. I have a feeling that I haven't fully exhausted my energy.So, the gasoline or energy that is still stored inside me, well, it would be nice if I could sing it out, but I haven't learned how to do that properly. The way I'm releasing those things right now is by using psychology, but I feel like I haven't fully released it yet, and I'm not satisfied with that.

Kujiragumo:
What kind of things are you not fully releasing right now?

Okuken:
That's right. This is difficult, but in terms of physical sensation, there is a swirling energy around my chest, if I had to put it into words.
And when I express my emotions, it sublimates in a very good way, like a 'whoosh'.I feel like I can really let that out when, for example, I'm talking with close friends from graduate school and releasing my emotions, or when I'm able to be my true self in private relationships. I have a sense that I can really express it at times like that.
So, thinking about it while I talk, I feel like maybe I haven't fully expressed my true self yet. It's a sense of restriction, or perhaps a feeling of being pent up, that kind of sensation.

Kujiragumo:
I see. Then, what kind of personality do you think you have?

Okuken:
Personality, I wonder... I probably have a challenging spirit, don't I?

Kujiragumo:
When do you demonstrate that?

Okuken:
It's like that every day, but when I make big life choices, I definitely choose challenge over stability. Also, the fact that I applied for this 'Namujin Interview' is also a challenge. Setting aside whether this falls into the big or small category, it's those kinds of individual choices.

Kujiragumo:
Thank you. Then, do you think your personality as seen by those around you is the same?

Okuken:
I think it's the same. If anything, I realize it's true by seeing the reactions from people around me. Because it's definitely like that within me.

Kujiragumo:
Then, are there any sides of you that people around you don't seem to have noticed yet?

Okuken:
I basically don't hide anything. I don't hide it, and I can't hide it, right? (laughs) If anything, the people around me know sides of me that I don't know better than I do. So, the 'me' that I know isn't really that much.

Kujiragumo:
Have there been any things that people around you have said that surprised you?

Okuken:
Things that were surprising... I don't really get surprised much lately, but a few years ago, people would say things like 'you're serious' or 'you're stoic'.
Also, what else... and that my verbal expression is very easy to understand. And also, over 10 years ago, people said I had a nice voice (laughs).

Also, what else... moving toward various goals is a good point of mine, but there are times when I end up neglecting myself. Like pushing through even when my physical condition is poor.
Since I'll do the things that are important to me even if left alone, I've realized recently, maybe in the last year or so, that it's more important to apply the brakes at a good balance,and that's something I've started to notice because people around me have told me.

My first career was as a public servant in a psychology-related role. After that, I continued as a public servant in a psychology role. At that time, I was doing counseling as a side job once a week. From there, I wanted to get involved in starting up a psychosomatic clinic, so I quit and was involved in the 0-to-1 startup of that clinic. And now, I've quit that too and become a freelancer. As a career, it feels like I'm charging from stability into instability, really.

And so, now that I've become a freelancer and am completely setting all my own schedules, I end up running too much and doing too much. Because of that, I tire myself out, and there are moments when it affects my clinical work, which is what I should value most. Since things like that happen, I think it's very important to cherish myself both publicly and privately, for my own sake and for the sake of others.

I feel that there are moments when I prioritize the goal in front of me and neglect myself. That's definitely the thing I've thought about most since becoming a freelancer.

I've started to feel that I want to cherish that part of myself now.

Kujiragumo:
Thank you.

Past: Even psychologists don't have perfect mental health; everyone is just a flesh-and-blood human being, so there are all sorts of things.

Kujiragumo:
Then, I would like to ask about the past from here. First, what kind of child were you, Okuken-san?

Okuken:
As a child, I was full of curiosity. I really liked insects. I liked insects, and at the time, there was a program called 'Dobutsu Kisotengai' (Animal Wonders).

Kujiragumo:
Ah, that brings back memories.

Okuken:
You remember? Oh, so you're from that generation. That makes me happy.

Kujiragumo:
(Laughs)

Okuken:
There was this guy, Mr. Sengoku, who was on TV a lot.

Kujiragumo:
Oh, yes. The snake guy?

Okuken:
Exactly. Mr. Sengoku appeared frequently on 'Doubutsu Kiso Tengai,' and my dream as a kindergartner, and even up until about 1st or 2nd grade, was to become him. My dream was to become an insect expert.
When I was in kindergarten, I used to catch pill bugs and put them in jars. I also raised rhinoceros beetles, and they really multiplied from about 50 to 100.

So, with that kind of background, I raised beetles, had dogs, tropical fish, turtles, and goldfish; I was really into living creatures.

Kujiragumo:
Until when was that?

Okuken:
Let's see, it was like that from kindergarten until about the upper grades of elementary school.
And also, let's see, in kindergarten, other than catching bugs, I was almost always spinning tops.

Kujiragumo:
Tops?

Okuken:
Yes, my kindergarten was unique; we didn't have a schedule except for lunch.
Other than lunch and the picture-story shows before the bus came to take us home, there was nothing.
So it felt like freedom, and it was just bug catching and tops. It was always like that.

Kujiragumo:
Was there anything else you were obsessed with during elementary school?

Okuken:
Let's see. I started playing baseball in 3rd grade.

Kujiragumo:
Was there any particular reason for that?

Okuken:
A close friend of mine in the same grade was doing it.

Kujiragumo:
Did anything change when you moved on to junior high school?

Okuken:
When I went to junior high, I was in the baseball club for all three years, but... hmm, changes, huh...
I think things started to change a bit from the upper grades of elementary school. It wasn't like it suddenly changed when I entered junior high.

I took entrance exams for junior high. From the time I started studying for that, things I had to do, rather than things I wanted to do, began to take up a large part of my life.
From about the upper grades of elementary school. From that point on, I started to suppress expressing myself. Or rather, it feels like I've been suppressing it ever since.

Thinking about it while talking now, I feel like the pent-up frustration from that time probably hasn't been resolved yet.

Kujiragumo:
I see. Then, are there any memorable episodes from your junior high or high school days?

Okuken:
I have. When I was a first-year high school student, I sprained my knee and hurt it. I was on the high school baseball team, and although I wasn't there on a sports scholarship, it was a place that had them.
It wasn't exactly a prestigious school, but it was the kind of place where people would come on sports scholarships. I just went there after middle school as usual. You get exposed to intense competition there. It was quite tough.
Compared to the people on sports scholarships, I wasn't big and my physical ability wasn't high, so I felt like it was going to be really hard to be a regular or even make the bench. Then I got injured, and I thought, 'This is really bad.' At the time, I had this belief that if I took baseball away from myself, there would be nothing left.

Even with my studies, I had worked really hard for middle school entrance exams, but I realized that was about as far as I could go, so I saw the upper limit of my academic ability. I believed that if I was no good at studying and no good at baseball, I had no value as a human being. At the time. When I was 16.

I was convinced that if baseball disappeared, I wouldn't have any value in living. So, I kept pushing myself, and I ended up getting a serious injury.
I got seriously injured, and I was bedridden from September 2009—my second year of high school—until May 31, 2011. I ended up dropping out of high school, so I didn't graduate. My final education level is middle school graduate, something like that.

However, at that time, my body was in so much pain that I was bedridden, and no matter how much time passed, it didn't get any better at all. I had detailed examinations, MRIs, X-rays, blood tests, and various other tests at orthopedic clinics, rheumatology departments, pain clinics, and many other places, but the conclusion was that there were no abnormalities. Physically, there was nothing wrong. But I was in so much pain that I was bedridden and couldn't move.
That was what my life was like from age 17 to 19.
So, my high school life ended suddenly.

Kujiragumo:
Suddenly in September of your second year of high school?

Okuken:
I had been enduring the pain in my body for a long time. September was when I reached my limit and stopped going, and I was bedridden from then on.

Kujiragumo:
I see. What kind of things were you thinking about during that period?

Okuken:
Since I had detailed examinations at various places and no abnormalities were found, and because no abnormalities meant no diagnosis, and no diagnosis meant no treatment plan, I completely felt like, 'Oh, I'm just stuck,' something like that.

Kujiragumo:
Did it get better naturally?

Okuken:
It was sheer willpower. I think I mentioned I was bedridden until May 31, 2011.
From there, with some encouragement from people around me, I started walking a little bit, about 5 minutes a day, even though it hurt. Then that 5 minutes became 10, 10 became 15, and so on. My lower back hurt too, so I couldn't even sit in a chair, but I started sitting in a chair little by little. While doing things like that, I progressed bit by bit.
And even now, it hasn't completely healed. So if you ask me if it's cured, it's not, even now. Well, I've made it this far, though, even in that state.

Kujiragumo:
What does this period mean to you now, Okuken-san?

Okuken:
Well, it is the foundational experience that led me to become a psychologist.
That was back when I was on the patient side. Now I am on the side of the healthcare professional.

Kujiragumo:
Thank you. How did you proceed after that?

Okuken:
As I walked a little every day from being bedridden, my activity level increased.
Because my lower back hurt and I couldn't sit for long, I spent all my time outside of meals studying.
I started moving on May 31, 2011. Then, around February 2012, I started going to Toshin Satellite Preparatory School—I think they were really ahead of their time, as they had video lessons where you could take classes anytime, anywhere. That was a huge help to me at the time.

Then, in August 2012, I took the Certificate for Students Achieving the Proficiency Level of Upper Secondary School Graduates. Since my final education was middle school, I got my high school graduation qualification in August 2012. After that, I studied in earnest for university entrance exams. About half a year later, in February 2013, I took the university entrance exams. I passed, and it was the Department of Psychology in the Faculty of Psychology. That was the starting line for me to begin studying psychology.

Oh, and this physical pain of mine is also very related to psychology. Physical symptoms are one of the reactions to stress. What I mean by that is, for example, there are people who get nervous and get a stomachache or diarrhea, right? So they get diarrhea when they are nervous. If you think about it normally, that's pretty amazing, isn't it? You get diarrhea from nervousness?
Or, hearing stories about how people get headaches when stressed, or in some cases, get ulcers in their stomachs—isn't that amazing? Invisible stress causes a hole in your stomach. In the same way, physical pain is one of the reactions to stress.

So, if you have detailed examinations and there is no physical cause, that means there is at least some factor related to stress or the mind, which is the conclusion I reached after researching it myself. And that is the first trigger for why I started to become interested in psychology.

Kujiragumo:
I see. How was your learning in the Department of Psychology?

Okuken:
Well. I'm really sorry for having such a complicated life, but for the first two years, I had a relapse and couldn't really go.
But I was really lucky and made friends at university, even so.
That helped me.

Then, around my third year of university, I was finally able to take all the classes in terms of my physical condition—or rather, I felt like I just had to do it. From there, my body started to recover again.

So I worked hard through my third and fourth years of university, and I was able to graduate in four years without any issues.
To enter graduate school from my fourth year of university, there is a graduate school entrance exam. The subjects were psychology, English, and an interview.

It was tough, but I was studying really hard together with my peers who were also going on to graduate school, and that was incredibly fun for me. It felt like I had reclaimed my youth.It was difficult, but for me, it was a fun experience.

After that, I went on to graduate school. To become a clinical psychologist or a certified public psychologist, you need to go to a graduate school's clinical psychology department. The graduate school was a two-year master's program.

By the time I was in graduate school, my body had recovered quite a bit, so I was able to attend classes without any problems. Unlike in university, the number of students in my cohort was very limited. There were seven of us in my cohort. Because of that, we were able to communicate very deeply.

Also, I think it was an opportunity to learn not just the knowledge, but the stance required to become a psychologist. So, it felt like I really started studying things that would actually be useful once I entered graduate school.

Even as a psychologist, since we are living, breathing human beings, everyone has something going on, right? If you're alive. So,it's not like psychologists have perfect mental health; we are all living, breathing human beings, so we all have various things going on. The stance on how to face those times when you have various things going on is very important. The stance on how to face the stress that happens to you—I felt it was very important to take what I learned myself through those experiences and give it back to the clients and patients.That kind of thing is very important, so I felt that it is crucial to look at my own experiences and look at myself firmly.

I was able to learn that stance in graduate school. So, if I hadn't gone to graduate school, I think my stance on life would have been completely different, and I realized that clinical psychologists and certified public psychologists are able to provide psychological clinical care precisely because they have gone through that kind of training.
I think it was an important two years for me.

Kujiragumo:
Then, how about your life as a working professional after graduating from graduate school?

Okuken:
Well, let's see. At my first workplace, up until my student days, my mindset was still a bit more like a patient's. What I mean by that is,
my body wasn't healed. So, I thought,since symptoms remained and my life was something I would have to live with these symptoms forever, I had this mindset somewhere deep down that my life wouldn't go in a good direction anymore.

Even though I was doing various things in terms of actions. I had this label that my life was a failure.
But once I entered the field, objectively speaking, there were many people in more difficult situations than me. There were people who were hospitalized, for example. However, even though they should have been in a tougher situation than me objectively, there were people who seemed happier than me.

At that time, I thought—and it's really embarrassing to say this while having studied psychology—it's not about what the situation is, but how you perceive that situation and what kind of actions you choose to take to be happy within it. That's what's important, right?It was after I entered the field that I truly understood that in my gut and experienced it.

And from there, I shifted from a life of just consuming time until my lifespan ends, to a life of thinking about what I should do before I finish consuming my lifespan.
So, that's when my challenges began. The so-called 'personality that takes on challenges' I mentioned earlier. I think this is probably my true self. It feels like that side of me finally emerged after I became a working professional.

Kujiragumo:
And was the next job also as a civil servant?

Okuken:
Yes, it was a civil servant again. It was a civil servant position, and while the first one was in a hospital rehabilitation department, the second one was at a local welfare facility for people with disabilities. I was working there, and while it was certainly stable, I felt that I wasn't able to fully express myself within the defined duties.

So, I started doing counseling at a clinic as a side job, once a week. Side jobs were allowed. And at that time, I just thought that counseling at a hospital was really fun. I just felt that way.

After I started my side job, I also started thinking about money. Like, how much would the net profit be if I did a certain number of counseling sessions a day?
Until then, I had this idea that thinking about money was something dirty, but my perception changed to, 'No, this is about facing life. It's an important thing.'

And I started to think that no matter how much I grow as a psychologist, it is important that my efforts have a corresponding value.
That is because, as long as you are doing it as a 'professional,' that value is money. Because there is a responsibility that comes with receiving money, you must refine your expertise. I came to think that working as a professional, as an expert, means exactly that.
I believe it is very important to have the responsibility and pride of a professional.

While doing that, I saw the ceiling of my productivity as a single player. Because the capacity for how many counseling sessions I can do in a day is fixed.
So, I thought it was a structure where it's difficult for the 'value' to increase as a result of refining expertise. From there, I started to think that I shouldn't just refine my skills as a player, but I have to take the initiative and decide my own career path.
Since then, I've been involved in a 0-to-1 startup at my next workplace, and that's because I wanted to learn about 'business'.

Kujiragumo:
Then, was there any trigger or reason for you to take your current job?

Okuken:
In my current workplace, being on some platform or in some organization, there is, after all, a sense of lack of freedom.

I've worked in many different workplaces, and I've come to realize that there's no such thing as an ideal organization; no matter where you are, there will always be something.
I have no intention of complaining about that at all; I just think that's how things are. After all, it's only natural, since it's something created and run by people other than me, people with different values than mine.
So, I'm currently experimenting with what would happen if I stepped away from an organization for a bit and tried doing things on my own. That's the kind of situation I'm in.

Kujiragumo:
I see. Thank you.

Mirai: I've been sharing the things I've experienced over the past 32 years, so by the time I'm 64, won't I have twice as much to share?

Kujiragumo:
From here on, I'd like to ask you about the future. So, Okuken-san, if you imagine five or ten years from now, or even up until the time you pass away, what kind of image do you have for the future?

Okuken:
About the future... well, I'd like to become increasingly free.

Kujiragumo:
What kind of state is a 'free' state?

Okuken:
It's a state where I am able to express myself.

Kujiragumo:
Are there things you want to do from here on out?

Okuken:
There are quite a few things. The timing is just right now, but... I'm currently working mainly on counseling as a contractor, but I'm thinking of increasing my work in various ways.

For one thing, I've been thinking for a long time about whether I can do something on my own platform. And what I'm putting the most effort into right now is note.

Actually (as an aside), I'm about to write today's article, but I haven't written it yet, and I'm thinking, 'Oh no!!' (laughs). Today is my 200th consecutive day of posting.
So I have to write something proper, and I'm thinking, 'Oh crap!' as I do this right now. So, I'd like you to look back later and see that I wrote it while thinking that (laughs).

I'm thinking about whether I can do something using that platform called note.
And what I'm planning to do is a made-to-order 'Reading Prescription'.
I always convey various things to everyone using the term 'Reading Prescription.' I'm thinking of trying that out through individual consultations.

As a psychologist, it falls into the category of what's called 'email counseling.' I'm planning to do it under the name 'A Reading Prescription Sent to You'.
Until now, my articles were written in a general way, hoping that they would resonate with someone among the unspecified masses. I'm planning to do something like a pen-pal exchange, where I receive someone's worries like a letter, and I reply by 'sharing' things that I think are good, as if I were writing a letter back.

I'm currently getting everything ready to start 'A Reading Prescription Sent to You' as a job from the end of the year.

Kujiragumo:
Yeah.

Okuken:
Also, I think note has a very different vibe from other social media. There are many people who like reading text and who can enjoy reading long articles, and I feel there's a calm and settled atmosphere.
That's partly because it's text rather than high-stimulation video, and there aren't ads popping up everywhere, and I think it's because of this environment that various note users have worked hard to create.

When I thought about what I could do using that, among the articles I've posted so far, there were several dialogues and interviews—I've been doing these 'unauthorized interviews' where I get permission afterward to turn conversations with others into articles—and they turned out to be interesting.

As a fledgling psychologist, I'm good at digging deep into people's stories, so I thought it would be quite interesting to listen in that way.
When I turned that into an article, I had four articles on my current creator page that had over 100 likes (as of November 2024), and all four were collaborative projects where I listened to someone's story and published it.

I enjoy listening to people's stories, digging deep into them, and writing about them, and I actually started doing something like 'Unknown Person Interviews' before I even knew they existed.
I think it's really great to dig deep into various people's lives, not just through counseling.

What I'm most interested in, while also having my own experiences, is health.

According to the WHO definition, health is a state where physical, mental, and social connections are all fulfilled. That is the health defined by the WHO. It's not just about the body; you shouldn't leave your mind behind, and you shouldn't leave your connections with people behind. The WHO says that health means properly valuing those three things.
So, I want to approach health in that way.

Therefore, it's not just about being a psychologist; for example, when it comes to the body, there are many things like diet, exercise, and yoga, right?
The 'Mujin-nin Interview' (Interviews with Unknown People) is also like that. I think there are many things in the world that are interesting but not known to those around them, things that are doing great work but aren't widely recognized. So, I want to be the one to ask about them. Since I have the skill of listening to people as a psychologist, I want to do it in the form of an interview rather than counseling. I want to use that skill to introduce those people on my platform and connect people with each other,and that is one thing I am thinking about.

Also, are you familiar with a job search site called 'Nihon Shigoto Hyakka' (Japanese Work Encyclopedia)?

Kujiragumo:
I don't know it.

Okuken:
I'd like you to search for it later; it's a really wonderful site. It's a so-called job search site, but it's quite interesting because it's categorized by things like 'choose by way of life' or 'choose by way of working.' They go directly to the site, interview people, and write about the workplace exactly as it is to post the job listing.

I want to do a health version of that.
Since I'm interested in health, I want to do a health version. For example, a counseling room that is run on a small scale but isn't well known, or a place doing great yoga that isn't well known, or a great chiropractor that isn't well known, or a coffee shop serving great coffee that isn't well known. I want to share things that I find 'interesting' or 'good'.

Until now, I didn't really see the point in increasing my note followers, but I realized that if I do this, there is a huge significance in increasing followers and gaining influence.

By publishing my articles, many people can see them. That means having influence, right? That's exactly why I want to do things that make the most of that influence. Whether or not that becomes a job, I don't know at this point. But at least in the future, I am thinking about doing something like that.

What I'm planning to do now is not just work that is outsourced to me, but I also want to have a business that I create from scratch, from 0 to 1. That is the 'Reading Prescription' I mentioned earlier.
I've already decided that I'm going to release it on December 29, 2024. That's what I'm going to do.

Kujiragumo:
Thank you. I felt that expressing and sharing yourself is common to everything.

Okuken:
That's right. So, I've been searching for a way of expression that fits me.

Kujiragumo:
Then, if you were to completely find a way of expression that fits you and achieve your ideal state, what do you think you would start doing after that?

Okuken:
I think I would probably continue to share that experience.
I have thoughts about doing counseling.

I think most people don't even do counseling, buteveryone doesn't know their own values. They don't know what they truly think is good or what they hate, including myself. As we grow up, obligations increase more than the things we want to do. By fulfilling those obligations, the voice of our own heart becomes harder and harder to hear, and I think there are many people who grow up like that.

But I think everyone has their own sensibilities of 'This is good! This is bad!'
I believe that is an artistic sensibility that cannot be put into words. Everyone is an artist and actually wants to express themselves. That's what I think. Most people want to do what their true self thinks is good and want to express it.

And mental illness is a means of expressing that you are suffering. So, illness is also one of the means of expression.So, it's energy. Since it's a means of releasing the pent-up energy within oneself,if you convert that means of releasing energy into something other than illness, as a result, you won't need to rely on illness.

Kujiragumo:
Uh-huh.

Okuken:
So, that's the same thing even if you're not in the phase of being ill.
I will express the pent-up energy within myself, and by experiencing what it feels like to be happy, I think I will probably share that with others. I think that's what I'll do.
It might be about how to work or how to live, I'm not sure. I won't know until that time comes.
So, I don't think the part about sharing will change. However, you can't express more than what you've experienced. So, at this moment, I'm 32 years old, andI'm sharing what I've experienced in my 32 years, so when I'm 64, I'll have twice as much, right? Then the range of what I can express will expand. I personally think that the change is in that range, and the essential part of sharing will not change.

Kujiragumo:
I see, thank you. Now, I'd like to ask a 'what if' question.
If you could go back to the past in a time machine, when would you want to go back to and what would you want to do?

Okuken:
It would have to be when I was in high school, before I got injured. Or even after I got injured is fine. It's that, I was convinced that I had no value in living if I couldn't do things like study or sports. I want to tell my past self that there are no such conditions for a person to live.
There are no conditions like 'you can't live unless you're like this.' No matter what the situation is, that's just something that person is judging, so you should just do what you think is good, and strategically run away from what you think is bad, and that's fine.

Kujiragumo:
Thank you.

Okuken:
Also, another thing I thought of is that I'm doing that in my clinical practice now. I'm conveying that to patients in my daily work. I'm saying to them in the clinical setting what I wish someone had said to my 17-year-old self. That's what I'm doing.

Kujiragumo:
I see. Well, at the end of this interview, is there anything you left unsaid, or perhaps a promotion, or a message to the viewers, or even something like a final testament—is there anything you'd like to talk about?

Okuken:
Let's see. First of all, I'm thinking of turning what I felt during our exchange today into a note article, is that okay?

Kujiragumo:
That's fine.

Okuken:
I think that because our perspectives are different, Kujiragumo-san, the work that comes out of it will probably be something completely different. I'd like to do that. Also, I'd be happy if you could write something about the 'Reading Prescription' since I want many people to know about it.

But really, the thing I want to convey most is related to the question you asked at the end.
There are no conditions that say you must be a certain way to exist as a human being. No matter the situation, it's natural that people are allowed to live, and you are allowed to choose to be happy.

I think there are so many people who make themselves suffer by binding themselves with thoughts like 'I'm no good if I'm not like this,' 'I have no value in living if I'm not like this,' or 'I don't deserve to be happy as I am now,' due to societal stereotypes or childhood education.

But I think that includes me, to a greater or lesser extent; we all have those kinds of bindings or spells. So, those things only exist because you think they do; they don't actually exist at all. I want everyone to cherish their own sensibilities.

Kujiragumo:
Yeah.

Okuken:
In psychology, emotions are states of mind that can be expressed in a single word. It's a little different from sensibility.
We talk about 'anger,' 'sadness,' 'fun,' or 'joy,' but since we are verbalizing them in a single word, strictly speaking, they aren't emotions.

Emotions arebodily reactionsIt's things like your chest tightening when you're nervous, blood rushing to your head when you feel anger, or energy surging through your whole body when you feel motivated. That internal reaction or movement of the body when something happens is what emotion or sensibility really is.

So, instead of verbalizing or thinking 'I should do this,' I want everyone to value what they feel as a sensibility,as a sensation in your own body, more primitively and fundamentally. I want you to value what you truly feel inside—what kind of energy you have, how you want to express it, and what you want to do with yourself. I want to cherish that myself, and I want to continue conveying that to everyone.

Afterword

I felt the connection between mind and body was obvious, but when I think about it, it's interesting and important.
I am one of the people who received Okuken-san's 'share'.
I'm going to explore what kind of expression I want to make from deep within. Thank you very much!

[Interview/Editing/Afterword: Kujiragumo]

[Editing: mii]

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