For those who believe that beyond the ego lies a world where the self and the world merge

Once upon a time, in a village deep in the mountains, there lived a young monk named Gudo. Every day, Gudo devoted himself to his training, aiming to cast off his ego and achieve enlightenment. However, no matter how hard he tried, he was troubled by his inability to escape his own desires and attachments.
One day, in a dream, Gudo heard a mysterious voice. It said, "You, stand under the waterfall. There, you will see the truth."
Upon waking, Gudo remembered a great waterfall on the outskirts of the village. Without hesitation, he headed toward the waterfall and threw himself into its cold water.
As he stood under the waterfall, Gudo suddenly felt his body becoming transparent. He was enveloped in a strange sensation, as if he were becoming one with the surrounding nature. The rustling of the trees, the chirping of the birds, the murmuring of the river—everything felt like a part of himself.
In that moment, Gudo realized the truth: that he, who had been trapped by his ego, was actually one with the world. Beyond letting go of the ego, a beautiful world where the self and the world were fused had been spreading out all along.
When Gudo climbed out of the waterfall, his expression had become completely serene. Returning to the village, he treated people with kindness and preached the importance of cherishing nature. He taught, "The self and the world are not separate. Everything is one."
At first, the villagers did not understand the meaning of Gudo's words. However, as they experienced his gentle demeanor and deep compassion, they gradually began to understand his true intent.
Before long, the entire village transformed into a place where people cared for one another and lived in harmony with nature. The people began to perceive the sense of unity with the world that lies beyond the ego.
And finally, Gudo said this: "If you transcend the ego, the self and the world are all one. That state of being is true happiness."
And they lived happily ever after.
That was the preface for the 866th 'Nameless Interview,' written at 2:21 AM on August 20, 2024, by someone who thinks so!!!!!!!
[Preface: qbc / Yasuhiro Kuribayashi (Writer, Organizer of Nameless Interview)]

Joining us this time is Koji Miki!

Age: Late 50s
Gender: Male
Occupation: Innovation School Management
For-profit activity: Pursuing purpose in the AI era: zenschool

Non-profit activity: The world's largest international conference on Zen and mindfulness: Zen2.0

Facebook:
https://www.facebook.com/mikikouj/
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https://x.com/mikikouj
Blog

Profile

Current: Based on Zen, in a sort of Q&A style, I help extract new business ideas from what company presidents want to do, or create them together—that's the kind of thing I do.

qbc:
What do you do now?

Koji Miki:
What do I do now...I am someone who runs Zen2.0, a non-profit international conference on Zen and mindfulness, while also helping small and medium-sized enterprises launch new businesses.

qbc:
What is the ratio of your activities?

Koji Miki:
The non-profit work is about 80%. My main business is about 20%, I suppose. Yes.

qbc:
Which one is your main business?

Koji Miki:
My main business is the launch of new businesses for small and medium-sized enterprises.

qbc:
That's about 20%?

Koji Miki:
That's about 20%.

qbc:
In what sense are you using the term 'main business' then?

Koji Miki:
Main business, well, in short, I spend about 20% of my time on the part that earns money, and 80% of my time on things that don't generate income.

qbc:
Is there anything special about launching new businesses for small and medium-sized enterprises?

Koji Miki:
The special thing is that I deal with company presidents a lot. Until a little while ago, there were many in the manufacturing industry, but recently, people in service industries, IT, and consulting have been increasing quite a bit.

qbc:
General consulting for small and medium-sized enterprises?

Koji Miki:
I run something like a school for consulting or innovation. It's based on Zen, a bit like Zen riddles, where I help extract or co-create new business ideas based on what the company president wants to do.

qbc:
What exactly is that Zen part?

Koji Miki:
Well, going back a bit to the past, around 2008 or 2009, there was the Lehman Shock. I was an executive at a venture company at the time, and while part of my role was helping with the IPO, the economic crisis caused our performance to drop significantly. It became a situation where those with high salaries were asked to leave, so I was laid off.
I had been working day and night for the previous nine years because it was a venture, so the sudden layoff was a huge shock, and I fell into a state of depression. When I started practicing Zazen at home to regain my peace of mind, my mental state became very calm. During Zen, although it's technically considered not ideal in Buddhism, various distracting thoughts arise, but I found that business ideas for new ventures kept popping up within those distractions. So, I've been using this method for 13 years now—since 2011—to extract what a person truly wants to do through meditation, Zen, and dialogue. I run a school called zenschool that extracts innovation.
In that sense, I am doing new business creation using Zen.

qbc:
What specifically do you do now?

Koji Miki:
Specifically, I have people come to this studio in Kamakura for a course that lasts about two days, and I only accept up to three people at a time. Since it's hard to speak one's true feelings in business contexts, we start with self-disclosure, talking about our lives, which takes over half a day. Basically, everything said there is kept secret, and under a mutual non-disclosure agreement, the three presidents share their backgrounds, the worries they are currently facing, and what they want to do in the future. After creating an environment where they can say anything, I guide them through a short, 30-minute meditation. There is a workshop where they extract what they truly want to do, and then we work on converting that into a concrete business plan. By the end of those two days, they have generally extracted the business they want to pursue. We follow up for about a month, and after they finalize their business plan, they present it one month later. Listening to that presentation is limited to zenschool graduates, with the premise that confidentiality is maintained. Furthermore, for six months after that presentation, the three people meet regularly, either online or in person, to share the progress of their businesses, back each other up, and support them until the business is launched.

qbc:
Are these three people meeting for the first time there?

Koji Miki:
Yes, mostly meeting for the first time. We share simple background information beforehand, but basically, it's their first time.

qbc:
How many years has it been since you started this style?

Koji Miki:
Well, I started in the month of the 2011 earthquake, so I think I started using mindfulness meditation around 2012 or 2013. Something like that.

qbc:
So, was the methodology of starting with three people and doing self-disclosure already firmly established back in 2011 or 2012?

Koji Miki:
It took about 13 years to gradually upgrade it, and it's been about five or six years since it settled into its current format.

qbc:
Five or six years. I see. What is it like now that it has stabilized or the format has been created?

Koji Miki:
What do you mean by 'what is it like'?

qbc:
Like, how the people who have taken the course feel.

Koji Miki:
Among the graduates, I'm not sure if I should mention specific company names, but there is someone who built a flying car. They came from a major automobile manufacturer.
They had been working on that within the company, but over a decade ago, making a flying car was considered taboo or even mocked within a major manufacturer, and the project was eventually scrapped. They quit and came to our zenschool to engage in dialogue about whether that was truly what they wanted to do, and it turned out it was. After graduating, they started their own company. We didn't expect it to go that far, but
they raised 14.7 billion yen, and they are probably quite famous in the media now. They have actually built up to the second prototype and are preparing for the flying car. Another person had worked for over 20 years at an auto parts manufacturer. They came here when they were about 51 or 52. They didn't think their 3D design skills were anything special, but generally speaking, they were a person with amazing abilities. Through meditation and dialogue,
the keyword of space development emerged as what that person truly wanted to do.
About a year and a half after graduating, they developed a lunar exploration robot. It's not that anyone can do it, but they reached the prototype stage. That person approached NASA-related personnel via video and email on their own, and since lunar exploration is being outsourced to the private sector by NASA, they ended up signing a contract with a venture company that had been commissioned for lunar exploration.

qbc:
Rather than the hardware side, how do the people who take the course feel, what kind of expressions do they have, or what kind of experience do they have?

Koji Miki:
Most of them have been suppressing what they truly want to do for a long time, so they enter a mode where they feel it's okay to let that go. They feel very refreshed and start acting with incredible energy.

qbc:
In a sense, since they are company presidents, I would think they are already doing what they like, so why are they holding back?

Koji Miki:
In the two examples I mentioned earlier, one was originally a salaryman, and the other was also originally a salaryman.

qbc:
Ah, like the timing of starting a business?

Koji Miki:
Even though I say I'm a president, I'm a one-man president.

qbc:
Oh, I see, I see. Having continued this for over 10 years, how do you feel about what you are doing, Mr. Miki?

Koji Miki:
There are many general innovation schools and graduate schools in Japan, but according to a professor at a famous university that promotes innovation education,it seems they have about 600 graduates every two years.
Among them, there is maybe only one or two people who can produce the kind of innovation that makes an impact on the world; it's like 1 in 600 or 2 in 600.

qbc:
Is the probability that high?

Koji Miki:
That's what they said at that graduate school. At a certain famous university.

qbc:
I feel like 1 in 600 is an incredibly high probability.

Koji Miki:
Yeah.We have only had 220 graduates so far, but including the two I just mentioned, and actually there are many others, I feel like we have produced about 10 to 15 mind-blowing innovators out of 220 in total.
So, generally speaking, that's hard to believe, or people might say that's a lie. I didn't even know the logic behind how I became able to produce that kind of impact, so I conducted joint research with various university professors, and we got some data. I still don't really understand the mechanism there. So, honestly, I still don't really know.
But since Zen in Japan is something that was passed down from China, I thought that if the mechanism of that innovation could be clarified based on that way of thinking, it would have a huge academic impact. So, to clarify that together, we are now in talks to conduct joint research with RISE (Swedish research creating sustainable growth) in Swedenwhich is like a national innovation research institute.https://www.ri.se/en That is how the conversation has developed.

qbc:
What are your hobbies, Mr. Miki?

Koji Miki:
My hobbies are Zazen, trail running, and surfing, which I've been doing a bit recently.

qbc:
Trail running?

Koji Miki:
Trail running is running on mountain trails.

qbc:
Ah, yes, yes, yes.

Koji Miki:
Since I live in Kamakura, there is a lot of ocean, and there are many mountains, right?

qbc:
How often do you exercise?

Koji Miki:
I do trail running about once a week, andthe energy of the mountains, I guess you could call it, has a very positive impact, psychologically as well.

qbc:
May I ask where you usually run?

Koji Miki:
It's in the hills behind Kamakura. There is a place called Kamakura-gu Shrine, and there is a mountain path that starts from the back left after you reach the end of the road. From there, I don't know the name of the mountain, but if you climb toward the summit, there is a path that goes from Kamakura toward Yokohama, so I go down that way. It's about 12 or 13 kilometers, and that has become my routine course.

qbc:
Thank you. What do people around you say about your personality?

Koji Miki:
My personality... I'm laid-back.

qbc:
Do people around you call you laid-back?

Koji Miki:
Yeah, I think people probably think I'm (careless/unreliable). (Laughs)

qbc:
What about yourself?

Koji Miki:
I think I'm careless myself, too.

qbc:
Are there any personality traits that people close to you—family, partners, best friends—mention?

Koji Miki:
I feel like people close to me have called me careless too... (Laughs)

qbc:
In what ways are you careless?

Koji Miki:
I often talk about things that are like dreams, so people ask if I can really do those things. (Laughs)
It's like that.

qbc:
Anything else? When you say 'careless,' it also has an image of being sloppy, but is that not the case?

Koji Miki:
I don't think I'm sloppy.
Personally, I haven't been diagnosed, but I probably have strong Asperger's tendencies, so I have some handicaps in terms of ability. For example, I can't remember people's names or faces, and my memory is extremely poor, so it's like that.
However, it seems I have amazing focus when I concentrate on things, so I apparently demonstrate great ability when I'm focused, but I don't really understand that myself.

qbc:
So you're careless when you're not focused?

Koji Miki:
When I'm not focused, I guess it feels like I have interpersonal problems.

qbc:
I see.

Koji Miki:
I make a lot of typos and omissions, I can't remember people's faces, and I can't remember names, things like that.

qbc:
Please tell me about your favorite food.

Koji Miki:
Favorite food... Oh, but recently I've been into a mix of brown rice and barley, and besides that, I like simple Japanese food like miso soup, or things I make myself like pickles.

qbc:
Do you eat out?

Koji Miki:
I do eat out because there's a delicious curry shop nearby, so I go eat curry there, and it's like, it's not so much that I'm going to eat curry, but the owner is interesting. It's a famous curry shop where they draw Buddhist paintings, and there are Buddhist paintings displayed, so I go to that shop quite often to talk to the owner.

Past: During that period, I really tried to go to a venture company in Tokyo from the morning, work, and then return to graduate school in Shonan at night to write my thesis, but after about three months, I got skin and bones thin, and I thought, 'This is dangerous, I'm going to die.'

qbc:
I'd like to ask about your past. What kind of child were you?

Koji Miki:
I think I had Asperger's, and I attended a private boys' school from junior high through high school, but I accidentally got into a preparatory school. Because of that, I was consistently in the bottom two for grades for six years, and I was almost expelled at one point because my grades were so bad.
That's how bad my grades were, and it's a dark history, or rather, my memory is extremely poor, so, you know, junior high and such is all about memory, right? Like exams.
I couldn't write kanji, things like that. I have almost no memory of those six years of dark history. It was just too painful.
And since it was a boys' school, I don't have many good memories of my adolescence.

qbc:
Yeah. Actually, when I was little, like in kindergarten, or what you might call my earliest memories.

Koji Miki:
My earliest memories are that I seemed to really love making things, like Lego.
Anyway, even when friends asked me to 'come play,' I'd say, 'No, I have things to do today.' I'd rush home and just spend all my time in that damp, six-mat Japanese-style room, making things like that and enjoying it.

qbc:
Do you remember what you made?

Koji Miki:
Buildings, spaceships, things like cars, that sort of thing. I loved doing things alone much more than being with people; it was almost like an autistic tendency.
Oh, and I don't know if it was a result of that, but I was always really good at arts and crafts in elementary school, and even after class ended, I'd just silently keep making things. I'd just keep making all sorts of things.

qbc:
I'd like you to tell me what the landscape of your birthplace and childhood was like.

Koji Miki:
I was born and raised in a residential area in the heart of Tokyo, and well, it was a fairly, what you'd call, nice area, a residential neighborhood with a lot of wealthy people. So, the friends I walked home with from public elementary school were also kids from rich families, like spoiled rich kids, and my own grandfather was the founding president of a publicly traded company, so every morning when I went in front of my grandfather's house, a car would be waiting to pick him up.
I guess you'd call it a 'president's car.' It was a Toyota Century or something like that, and I loved going behind that Century and smelling the exhaust fumes. (Laughs)

qbc:
Does that, does that still remain with you now?

Koji Miki:
No, that doesn't remain anymore. (Laughs)

qbc:
Is it different with a Century, like the color of the exhaust or something?

Koji Miki:
It has a relatively quiet exhaust sound, doesn't it?

qbc:
I see.

Koji Miki:
It was kind of old, or rather, I just liked the smell of the exhaust fumes. It left an impression on me, seeing the white exhaust coming out early on winter mornings.

qbc:
About how old were you then?

Koji Miki:
Kindergarten or elementary school age, yes.

qbc:
So, what was your youth, your university days, like?

Koji Miki:
During my youth, I moved past those dark days. I went to an all-boys school, so I was very unaccustomed to women. I spent a year as a ronin and then entered a Christian university nearby that had a lot of women, and I spent my time there feeling awkward and unaccustomed to it all. I didn't know how to interact with women.

qbc:
I don't think those dark days were fun, but were those days (at university) fun?

Koji Miki
That wasn't fun either, not really. (Laughs)
I went against the grain and it wasn't fun. Yes.

qbc:
By the way, what was your major?

Koji Miki:
Something like International Relations. There were returnees who were good at English, and there were a lot of women there too.
I spent those four years in a gloomy state, unable to even talk properly to the people I liked, while the campus felt quite glamorous, and I just couldn't fit in.

qbc:
By the way, I was curious, what kind of women are your type?

Koji Miki:
What kind of women? Someone who seems like a geek.

qbc:
The other person?

Koji Miki:
Yes, exactly.

qbc:
I think there are quite a few different types of 'geeky'.

Koji Miki:
Someone who struggles with communication just like I do.

qbc:
Right, right, right. So not a different type from yourself, but someone similar to you.

Koji Miki:
I can't talk to different types. (Laughs) I can't talk to flashy people. Yes.

qbc:
Do you have any particularly memorable episodes from your university days?

Koji Miki:
In university, I joined a theater troupe to shake off that feeling of depression.

qbc:
A university one?

Koji Miki:
It was an intercollegiate theater troupe that performed plays in English.
I worked as staff the first year, and then in my second year or so, I appeared as a cast member, which was actually quite fun. The thrill of creating something together with students from various other universities. I got hooked on that, on that aspect of it.
So, I think our organization has become like this intercollegiate circle, and perhaps the international conference on Zen and mindfulness is being run in the same vein.

qbc:
How long has it been since you started holding the conference itself?

Koji Miki:
The project started in 2015, we spent two years preparing, and we held the first conference in 2017.

qbc:
So this is the 7th one, right?

Koji Miki:
This year is the 8th.

qbc:
The 8th this year. Congratulations.

Koji Miki:
Thank you very much.

qbc:
And what did you do after graduating from university?

Koji Miki:
After graduating, I managed to get into a major computer manufacturer, and I think I worked there properly for about three years. I was also allowed to go to graduate school for two years.

qbc:
While still enrolled?

Koji Miki:
Yes, I was enrolled.

qbc:
What kind of graduate school did you enter?

Koji Miki:
It was a regular domestic graduate school where I studied management using things like the internet. I paid for it myself and enrolled there.

qbc:
I see. And then you graduated?

Koji Miki:
I was supposed to return after graduating, but my master's research went quite well and received social recognition, so I ended up enrolling in the doctoral program. It was fine to enter the doctoral program, but it seems I wasn't really cut out for being a researcher. I couldn't really produce research results, and in the end, I was enrolled for about nine years, including the master's program.

qbc:
In graduate school?

Koji Miki:
The master's program was two years, and I was held back for about half a year. I entered the doctoral program and ended up staying for six years. Along the way, work got busy. I joined a venture company.

qbc:
How old were you then?

Koji Miki:
Maybe 28 or 29.

qbc:
Wait, you worked for about three years after becoming a working professional, right?

Koji Miki:
I worked for about three years after becoming a working professional, and I think I was 28 when I entered.

qbc:
Wait, nine years from then?

Koji Miki:
I entered graduate school in 1995. I was there for nine years one way or another, but I think I took a leave of absence for about two years in the middle. Work got busy and things like that.

qbc:
Oh, so you were working?

Koji Miki:
Of course. I joined a venture company in the middle of the doctoral program.

qbc:
Ah, I see. That's what it was, yes, yes.

Koji Miki:
It felt like I was doing both the venture company and the doctoral program.

qbc:
Was that in your late 20s?

Koji Miki:
It was in my late 20s, yes, that's right.

qbc:
Joining a venture company, and school.

Koji Miki:
30 or 31, yes. But the professor I was attached to ended up doing government work, so he stopped looking after me much. As a doctoral student. So I was left adrift in my research, couldn't write my thesis, and felt like I was just left alone.
Then, I was approached by a venture company, and thinking about going there, I started working at that company while keeping my enrollment at the university.

qbc:
Was that in 2000?

Koji Miki:
Yes, around 2000.

qbc:
That was the glamorous era for internet companies.

Koji Miki:
Yeah, exactly, exactly.

qbc:
Like Horiemon?

Koji Miki:
In the venture scene, I think Horiemon and others were already there. Maybe it was a bit after 2000.

qbc:
I see, I understand. What was that period like? I'm sorry to rush you, but we're running out of time.

Koji Miki:
During that period, I would go to the venture company in Tokyo from the morning, work, and then return to the university in Shonan at night to try and write my thesis, but after keeping that up for about three months, I got extremely thin and thought, 'Oh no, I'm going to die.'So I took a leave of absence. Oh, I took a leave from school.

qbc:
I see, you took a break from school. And does that mean you shut down the venture?

Koji Miki:
I didn't start that venture myself, so, well, I worked hard for about nine years and built a system that generated quite a lot of revenue.

qbc:
Yes. May I ask what kind of thing it was?

Koji Miki:
It was something like an IT package for small and medium-sized enterprises.
At one point, it accounted for half, or two-thirds of the company's revenue, and I thought, 'Oh, we can go public with this,' and since we had VCs on board, we were a bit gung-ho and increased sales too much.
I don't know if you're familiar with venture companies,but if you don't increase sales by about 30% for two consecutive years, you don't meet the criteria for going public. We increased it too much in the first year, by 30, 40, or 50%, so the next year was tough.
And then, the Lehman Shock happened at that timing, and it was like, 'Well, we can't go public now.'

qbc:
There are things called consultants, right? IPO consultants, was it?
Was it a case of, 'We can do this with momentum,' or did you have that route in mind from the start?

Koji Miki:
We (rode) the momentum, well, we suddenly started selling the product. We teamed up with a certain company.

qbc:
So, at the time of founding, you didn't really have that image? That scenario?

Koji Miki:
Oh, I wonder. At the time of founding, I don't think that company really anticipated that.

qbc:
Thank you.
Yes, I'd like to hear more about what you mentioned earlier, about how things got to the point where you fell into depression.

Koji Miki:
First, about a year and a half after the IPO didn't go well, I was called in by the president, and, well, he didn't explicitly tell me to quit, but it was like, 'Either cut your salary in half or become independent,' and I felt that this was effectively being fired, so I said, 'I'll become independent.'
I went back home once, and while I was worrying about what to do, thoughts like, 'I worked so hard for nine years,' came up, and then I couldn't get out of bed in the morning.

qbc:
How old were you at that time?

Koji Miki:
Around 39, I suppose. 38 or 39.

qbc:
Were you part of any organization at that time?

Koji Miki:
Ah, I was still with that venture company.

qbc:
I see. So you were still on the payroll while preparing to go independent, is that right?

Koji Miki:
That's right. They were kind enough to give me some time. My mental state had deteriorated to the point where I couldn't even get out of bed, so I was wondering what to do.
I searched online and found websites saying things like, 'If you are feeling anxious, click here,' or pages recommending books to read. At that time, I don't know if you know him, butShiro Tange, a former managing director at Sony who developed AIBO and founded the Sony Computer Science Laboratories, had published a book on meditation. I picked up his book and realized the potential of meditation.
The book alone didn't quite explain it well enough, so I searched for keywords like 'meditation' and 'zazen' on YouTube, which had just started at the time. I found videos of Japanese monks doing zazen, butthe videos of Japanese monks doing zazen were just about the form—how to sit and cross your legs—and they didn't explain at all what happens inside your mind.
It was very difficult to understand, soI found a video on YouTube of a young American explaining zazen, so I started training while watching that. It was very easy to understand, and it even included explanations of what happens to your mind while you are doing zazen.
After sitting for about three months, I started feeling better, I could get out of bed, and I began to have many ideas for my own business. I kept writing down the ideas that came to me during zazen in a notebook.
During that time, I decided to start a company to help people who were going to become 'Makers'—people who create things on their own—using 3D printers and laser cutters that were just coming out then.
Since I had about half a year of leeway from the time I gave notice, I ended up starting the business six months later.

qbc:
What was your state of mind like during that time?

Koji Miki:
I was feeling anxious. Because there were absolutely no sales from the business. Even though that was the form in which I started it, the sales were effectively zero.
So, while I was frequently visiting Ota Ward, I met some leaders of small and medium-sized enterprises—I think there were about seven of them. They had a desire to develop new products. I launched my first project by receiving a subsidy from Ota Ward to create a course to support them.

qbc:
I see.

Koji Miki:
I provided that, but the business ideas that came out were not interesting, and there were many things like that. The course continued for a few sessions after that, but in the end, no novel products or items emerged.
I was working with my current business partner and another designer, but I ended up not getting along with that designer. As a result, the time allocated for the product planning that person was in charge of became free. About two days worth.

qbc:
Ah, for that lecture.

Koji Miki:
Yes. When I thought about what to do, I remembered that I had come up with various ideas through zazen,and when I incorporated a program into it where we would do zazen and try to extract business ideas, suddenly, quite interesting ideas for various products started to emerge. We thought that was quite interesting.
The product plans that came out were relatively easy to prototype because they were small and medium-sized enterprises. We put them on crowdfunding, which had just started at the time.
I think we were the first to help small and medium-sized enterprises with crowdfunding, and we managed to raise nearly 4 million yen. Half a year or a year later, we launched our own crowdfunding platform, and a flow was created where the people who took the course would keep posting their projects there.

qbc:
I see, I see. So it wasn't that Zen was the starting point, was it?

Koji Miki:
Well, Zen was there, but we were using that kind of mechanism.

qbc:
Ah, I'm sorry. At the point when you didn't get along with the designer and there was a gap in the course, Zen wasn't in the table of contents, was it?

Koji Miki:
It wasn't in there. Yeah.

qbc:
So, was that just a coincidence?

Koji Miki:
It was a complete coincidence.

qbc:
So you weren't thinking of using Zen for business, even though it helped you recover?

Koji Miki:
I wasn't thinking about that.

qbc:
Ah, I see. How do you feel looking back on that now?

Koji Miki:
Hmm, well, soit was a coincidence, but I feel like I was guided.

qbc:
Do you remember how long it took from when you decided to leave to when you decided to do that?

Koji Miki:
I don't really remember. (Laughs)

qbc:
I have two more questions about the past. How were you raised by your parents?

Koji Miki:
I was raised quite spoiled.

qbc:
Yeah.

Koji Miki:
I had an older brother, and he was expected to do a lot, but nothing was expected of me, so it was like, 'Just keep doing what you want to do.' It was the typical way a second son is raised.
I think I received a lot of love. I think they gave me a lot. Yes.

qbc:
Looking back on your life, even if it's just picking out bits and pieces, where do you think the turning points are?

Koji Miki:
The turning point was probably the restructuring.

qbc:
Yeah, yeah. It's okay to have multiple turning points.

Koji Miki:
That restructuring, and the timing of launching the international Zen and Mindfulness conference afterward—the project started in 2015, so the restructuring was in 2009.The 2009 restructuring and the 2015 start of the international Zen and Mindfulness conference.
I struggled a lot with the launch of the international mindfulness conference, but now there are so many new friends. Volunteer members. The community has become very rich; we talk online every day, and we also meet in person frequently to work or go out to eat, so it's like an extended family.

Future:At first, a vision was installed in my head with such vividness that it was almost visible and tangible, so I'm working backward from that, or something like that.

qbc:
Regarding the future, imagining 5, 10, 30 years from now, and even up to the point where you eventually pass away, what kind of future do you envision now?

Koji Miki:
For now, the international conference I launched called Zen 2.0 has gained some recognition domestically, but recently I've started receiving inquiries from Europe, like 'Why don't you do it in Europe?' and things like that.
So, from next year onwards, I'm thinking maybe we could try holding a small international conference called Zen 2.0 in Europe, and if that expands to other regions, that would be great.
We are doing it in Kamakura, Japan right now, but it could be in some city in Europe, for example, somewhere in Switzerland, or Berlin in Germany, or in some cases San Francisco, or Bangkok, and like that,international conferences that convey to the world how important the mind is will keep popping up, and various people will gather there, so by connecting the networks of people around the world, Japanese scientists, management scholars, monks, and researchers globally, I think various wisdom will probably start to gather.
I don't know if I will create a physical location for it in the future, but something like a university connected online, with various professors across countries discussing the possibilities of how to update the 'mind' with technology, and people from all over the world coming there to learn.Coming to learn online, for example, gathering at a temple in Kamakura, or gathering in person afterward, or gathering at a church somewhere in Europe to have a dialogue again—I hope to create something like a university or educational institution based on meditation and mindfulness.

qbc:
In terms of the concept, when did it take shape? The introduction of Zen itself was a coincidence, wasn't it? You mentioned you created it with a few friends when people actually started gathering for the conference. How did that scenario and plan come together?

Koji Miki:
About two months before the conference started in 2015, I was walking on the beach in Kamakura when a huge dragon god cloud appeared.

This might sound a bit spiritual, but it was clearly in the shape of a dragon. It had something like an eye, and there was something shaped like a pupil in it, and I felt like I was being stared at by that pupil, and I took a picture of it.It was like I received a message saying, 'Do something.' Like, 'Get it done.'
I was like, 'What should I do?' and I didn't know, but I felt driven by something. So, I think the trigger was launching this conference with my friends to share the wisdom of Zen from Kamakura to the world.

qbc:
If that hadn't happened, would the conference have been born?

Koji Miki:
Probably, yes.

qbc:
Why did it become a conference?
I think you received that grand image from the dragon god cloud, but what was the driver that made it evolve into a conference?

Koji Miki:
I still have a photo from our very first meeting, and it shows a whiteboard where we bulleted the things we wanted to do. We are now holding the conference at Kencho-ji, the most prestigious temple in Kamakura, and the only hope written on that board was 'We want to borrow Kencho-ji.' But at the time, we had absolutely no network or connections.But now, looking back after eight or nine years, almost everything written on that whiteboard has been realized.
So, the vision came down first, and since the vision was already in my head as a visual, I was just working backward, figuring out who to meet, what to ask, which temples to visit, and what approach to take to make that vision a reality. That is what triggered the movement to some extent.
The vision was installed in my head with such vividness that it felt almost tangible, so I was working backward from that, or something like that.

qbc:
Since when have you been using Kencho-ji as a venue?

Koji Miki:
Since 2017.

qbc:
That was quite early on, then.

Koji Miki:
The vision came to me in 2015, and at that time, it was almost impossible for an ordinary person like me to be allowed to use Kencho-ji, the most authoritative and largest temple in Kamakura. It started when I received permission through various connections.

qbc:
Now, looking back, how do you feel while running this business?

Koji Miki:
Well, there are wars, financial instability, earthquakes, and environmental issues, but in my view, I feel that these are all phenomena caused by human consciousness. So, first of all, to change that human consciousness, I hope to provide a place of realization where people can come to this conference, gain their own insights, and then return to their real worlds to take action.
It might be a trivial thing for society, the world, or the Earth, but I believe that if one person changes, the ten or twenty people in front of them will also change. So, I feel like I am creating seeds. That is why I am holding this conference.

qbc:
I have a 'what if' future question. If you were to return to zero now, what would you do? You haven't lost Zen, but the conference is gone, you have nothing concrete to do, and you are back to being alone.

Koji Miki:
I think I would gather companions again. I would talk passionately about that vision and do the same thing again.

qbc:
So you would start over.

Koji Miki:
I would start over as many times as it takes.

qbc:
Thank you. The last question is, is there anything you have left unsaid? It could be a last will and testament, a message to the readers, or just a monologue reflecting on the interview. If there is anything left to say, I would like to hear it.

Koji Miki:
Well, let's see. How should I put it?I believe that beyond the ego of the self, there is a world where the self and the world are fused.
It is inevitable that people move for the sake of their ego because that is the real world, but if you can think of yourself as a part of that world, then acting for the sake of society will eventually become acting for your own sake. So, if you go about various businesses and social activities with that kind of feeling, even if it starts from a small place, I feel like the world will begin to change. I hope you can realize that.

qbc:
Thank you.

Afterword

Zen is strong!

[Interview/Afterword: qbc]

[Editing: meadow]

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