[WSER2026] Kilian Jornet on Nutrition, Data, and Race Strategy
Trail running legend Kilian Jornet. After finishing third at the 2025 Western States 100, he is taking on the race again this year. Just before the event on June 23, he made his first studio appearance on the Singletrack Podcast. He spoke candidly about his nutrition strategy, which balances fats and carbohydrates, how he balances vast amounts of data with his own intuition, the changes brought about by the increasing density of races, and 'what really matters' beyond winning or losing. This is an insightful interview that offers a glimpse into the mind of a master.
References are below
1. Why did you return to Western States?
Host:
We are back. It is Tuesday, June 23, and we are bringing you studio coverage of the 2026 Western States 100 from Olympic Valley, California. And today, for the first time in history, we have someone joining us directly in the studio—Kilian Jornet. Kilian, how are you doing?
Kilian:
Thanks for having me. I'm a huge fan of this show. I'm really happy to be here.
Host:
Brett, do you want to kick things off? We can start with Western States, or anything else. We could talk about avocados or Broken Arrow.
Host:
Let's start with something I've been wondering about. When did you decide that you wanted to come back and run Western States again this year?
Kilian:
It was at the very moment I crossed the finish line last year. I didn't want to have a season spent chasing golden tickets. If you chase them, it affects your training, other races, projects, travel, and many other things. So when I finished in the top 10 last year and earned the right to return, I felt that it was a much better experience than I had anticipated.
You see, when I ran here in 2010 and 2011, it was a race that completely beat me up, and it just didn't suit me as a person. I didn't like it back then. I loved the atmosphere, but the race itself, not so much. So I thought, 'I'll never come back here again.' But last year was different. I thought, 'Maybe I can run well,' and 'It might not be so bad, I want to come back again.'
2. 15 years with the course—it was I who changed
Host:
Your relationship with this course and race has been 12, 13, 14...
Kilian:
I think it's 15 years.
Host:
Fifteen years, is it? Does that mean you have changed as a runner, and this course has finally become a good fit for you?
Kilian:
Yes, that is definitely the case. Back in 2010 and 2011, I wasn't running on pavement or flat ground at all. For me, flat ground was just something I crossed to get to the mountains. I was always training high up in the mountains and never ran on flat terrain.
That's why when I came here, I thought, 'Wow, this is tough.' Besides, you can't enjoy a race you aren't prepared for. Back then, I wasn't prepared for this race. But over the last few years, by running a bit more on the flats and preparing for the heat, I've finally been able to enjoy it. Well, maybe 'finally able to enjoy it a little' is more accurate.
3. Looking back at last year's race—the strategy of intentionally leaving something in the tank
Host:
Last year, I was watching you from afar at the Placer High School track. I saw the top five or six runners like Chris Myers, Caleb Olson, and Seth Ruhling. But at the finish, you looked incredibly energetic. It was like you were already eating food and skipping around the field. It made me wonder—did you really give it your all on race day, or did you still have something left in the tank?
Kilian:
No, I felt great. In the last hour, I was actually thinking, 'I wish there were another 10 miles. Then I could really push it.' But a race is a race, and there is a set distance. Maybe I made some mistakes, or rather... not mistakes, but I didn't fully execute the best strategy I could have that day. I might have been able to make my move a little earlier. But you don't know that during the race; you just play the cards you have at the time.
Still, I think it's a good feeling to feel strong at the end. I prefer finishing with a little left in the tank rather than finishing completely beaten.
Host:
Did you think you might be able to catch up to Chris or Caleb?
Kilian:
Yes. Races always have their ups and downs. When they were heading down toward Last Chance, I was probably in a moment where I was feeling a bit low. I felt, 'I don't want to follow them here because I don't know what's going to happen ahead.' Then the wave came back up, and I thought, 'Ah, I could have done more.' But that's not the moment anymore. Maybe Caleb and Chris had their low point toward the end, and I was in my high point.
That's why I don't like to think about parallel worlds. In reality, you can't redo things or try something else. I prefer to think, 'This is who I am, and what is the best I can do from here?' I don't think about 'what if I had done such and such back then.'
Host:
Are there any strategies you are determined to stick to this year based on the lessons from last year?
Kilian:
Of course. The biggest one is energy management. I think I can be a bit bolder and push harder earlier. However, I don't know how my injury will react. It's important to have a plan and think about various strategies. But in reality, once Saturday comes, everyone depends on how they feel that day and how they react to the moves. So, rather than sticking to a plan that might not fit, I'd rather stand on the side of trusting my intuition more.
4. The core of nutrition strategy—the balance between fats and carbohydrates
Host:
One of the things you wrote about last year's race that was particularly interesting was the nutrition aspect. We are in a very high-carbohydrate era, but your approach was a bit different for each stage. Do you feel that worked well?
Kilian:
I feel it worked well. Because I had a lot of energy left at the end, and I was able to eat properly when I needed it—in the final few hours. The problem is, if you eat a lot from the beginning, your stomach might not accept it after 10 hours. I prefer the opposite. The race is decided in the last five hours or so, and I want to be in good shape then. At this level, anyone can run fast for the first five hours. You shouldn't be pushing to the limit there; you should be doing it so that you can perform in the final part.
So the strategy is to conserve the body's systems. Keep everything functioning, prevent the pH from dropping or rising too much, and keep the stomach in good condition for the latter half when the heat and fatigue really start to take effect. This is very individual, and metabolism and consumption vary from athlete to athlete. But if you understand that, I think it helps in knowing how to conserve yourself and how to refuel as much as necessary when the time comes.
Host:
Last night, Brett and I were reading your blog post about last year's Western States, and I took notes because I thought it was a really interesting strategy. Last year, 95% of the lead pack was consuming only what you might call jet fuel—carbohydrate drink mixes. But you had a 50/50 ratio of fats and carbohydrates. Avocados, coconut oil, nuts, dates, bananas, overnight oats, cacao, beets. In the first few hours, you had three large intakes, 2,000 kilocalories each...
Kilian:
Yes. But the goal of the plan is this: in the early part of the race, you aren't running at such a fast pace. At that time, the body isn't just burning carbohydrates; it's burning both fats and carbohydrates. Humans store a large amount of fat, enough to keep running for days without refueling.
However, I was also measuring energy expenditure during the race, and I found that I consumed about 16,000 kilocalories. If I had only consumed carbohydrates, the deficit would have been enormous. So the strategy was: 'I know I'll be in a deficit at the end. But how can I avoid being in a deficit early on?' By consuming some fats, I can boost my calorie intake in the early stages. That way, the body doesn't send out warning signals that 'a large deficit is occurring.' When a deficit occurs, all systems start to malfunction. So I kept the intake up a bit, and as I transitioned into the heat, carbohydrates became the priority. It was in the final part of the race that I switched to only carbohydrates.Host:
Were you measuring your energy expenditure data using the doubly labeled water method?
Kilian:
Yes.
Host:
Is that quite accurate?
Kilian:
It is the most accurate method available today. Measuring calorie expenditure is very difficult, and one of the most precise ways is to enter a metabolic chamber (heat room) and measure all the temperatures. But that requires you to stay in a room for 24 hours without moving, which isn't realistic. It's certainly impossible during a race. So the doubly labeled water method is the most precise means compared to any other method.
Host:
One more thing. What did you learn from the core body temperature pill (core temp pill)?
Kilian:
There was some fluctuation in the beginning. It changes with the climbs and descents, which is normal. I reached my peak body temperature toward the end of the race. That happens when you push a little harder at the end after your body has been at its hottest for many hours. It stays high for a while even after finishing, because it takes time for the body to settle down.
It went up to 39 degrees at its peak. And for the last five hours, it was quite stable in the high 38-degree range. That's quite high. But I felt good, I felt I could maintain it, and I didn't feel hot during the race. It was a takeaway to know that I could perform even at that body temperature.
Host:
So, that was a good indicator that the cooling and hydration protocol you were doing throughout the second half was correct?
Kilian:
It seems it worked. I think you can always do more cooling. The cooler you are, the better. But you need to find a good compromise where you can cool down without losing much time and stay comfortable while running. So, the fact that I didn't feel hot during the race is probably the best indicator. In the end, it's about 'how you feel'.
5. Over-fueling or under-fueling—Top athletes' fueling
Host:
One last thing about nutrition. I'm especially curious because you were talking about the beginning—if you had to guess, do you think many of the Western States athletes at your level are over-fueling, under-fueling, or are they at the physiological optimum?
Kilian:
I think it's partly both. Certainly, many athletes are over-fueling at certain points in the race. Because you see many people stopping to vomit or have diarrhea. That's not normal. It means they aren't absorbing what they've consumed. So, if they consumed less or used a different strategy, these problems might not happen. And the tricky part is that once that happens, it's hard to regain absorption capacity later in the race.
For today's top athletes, I don't think under-fueling is the problem. It was very common 10 or 15 years ago—taking nothing, just a gel every two hours. But now, I don't think under-fueling during the race is an issue.
Rather, regarding pre-race, I think it's very good to gain a little weight. You can never meet the demands of the race no matter what. And if your body is fighting at the end while significantly below your normal weight, it senses that as a danger and starts shutting down some systems. So it's better to reach the end at your normal weight. If you have a little extra at the beginning, that's a good thing.
So, you might be slightly under-fueled before the race, but you might be over-fueling at some points during the race. But this also varies greatly from athlete to athlete. You need to test it in training, but the difficulty is that you can never practice 100 miles in these conditions and at this speed. So you use the experience from past years to figure out what the right amount is.
6. How fueling changes between climbs and descents
Host:
This is also something you wrote about that I thought was very interesting—the idea of changing the amount or type of fueling depending on whether you are climbing or descending. Could you tell me more about that?
Kilian:
Yes. We always talk about 'carbohydrates per hour' or 'calories' or 'hydration volume', but in the reality of running, climbing and descending are metabolically completely different.
On climbs, the metabolic system is working much more actively and burning far more energy. Your heart rate is higher and you are working harder, so you probably need more carbohydrates on the climbs. On the other hand, your heart rate drops on descents. Plus, there is a lot of vertical movement, which can make it harder to eat.
So, the strategy is to ensure you have the necessary energy before the climb, while avoiding over-consuming during the descents where gastrointestinal issues (GI stress) are more likely to occur. You practice this a bit in training to understand exactly when those moments are. It's not about thinking, 'I need to eat something every 20 minutes,' but rather adjusting according to the terrain. I think we'll see a lot more data emerging in this area.
7. How to engage with data—'What can be measured' vs. 'What is important'
Host:
Brett, what was the name of that breathing sensor we found a year ago?
Host:
Tymewear, right.
Host:
Yes, that's it. My point is—Brett and I love gear, and we have an eye for sensors and watches. So, every time we think we've discovered a new piece of technology first, you're already following their account.
Kilian:
Haha.
Host:
It's an account that was created two days ago, and the only mutual follower is Kilian. We're like, 'Damn, not again.'
Kilian:
Haha. But it's very important to understand this—not everything that can be measured is important, and not everything that is important can be measured. That's the first rule, and we need to be very conscious of that. With that in mind, it's great to try and collect as much data as you can. You just have to put it in the right context so you don't become blind. You collect it not to let the data dictate your training, but to understand how you are functioning, what your physiology is doing, and whether it's actually relevant.
Host:
Compared to 15 or 20 years ago, are there any metrics you feel are more worth tracking now? Conversely, are there any you thought were important back then but now think are unnecessary?
Kilian:
Many things come out, and after two or three years, you realize they aren't that useful. My approach is this—I collect data, but I don't use it to decide my training; I use it to understand how I am and how I'm reacting. I look to see if it's relevant. But this process is long. You can't just try it for a week and say, 'This is interesting, I'll base my training on this.'
You can measure so many things now. Metabolism—you can measure carbohydrate and fat burning in real-time, as well as lactate, ketones, cholesterol, triglycerides, and all sorts of measurements related to breathing. You can even measure how well you're absorbing food through methane and hydrogen gas. I've even worn an EEG helmet to try and understand what's happening in the brain during risky situations. It's not very practical, but it's interesting.
But to look at this kind of data, you need a brilliant scientist behind you who can interpret it. And usually, it takes two or three years after collecting the data before you start to see patterns. It takes even longer to know if those patterns are affecting your performance or health. So, it's a time-consuming process.
For me, data is not something that dictates my training. Training is usually based on very general things like heart rate and breathing, or RPE (Rate of Perceived Exertion) and how I feel. This kind of precise data is very interesting for understanding what is happening at a scientific level. But the process is long, and it often takes years to collect a large amount, interpret it, and find meaning in it.
Host:
Before we continue, I want to thank Precision Hydration, the official nutrition partner of the Singletrack Podcast. As I've said before, what I appreciate most about Precision is that their approach is practical. They aren't trying to sell a one-size-fits-all product to everyone. Everything starts with understanding your individual needs—how much you sweat, how much sodium you lose, and how many carbohydrates you actually consume per hour. That's why I recommend Precision's 'Fuel & Hydration Planner.' If you answer a few questions about your body, your pace, and the race conditions, it will give you a clear, realistic plan that you can actually execute on race day. If you're interested, check the link in the show notes. Use the code 'singletrack' at checkout for 15% off your next order. Thanks to Andy Blow and the team at Precision.
8. My weapons for Western States
Host:
Based on what you've learned about yourself, how does that affect how you approach a race like this? What are your strengths for succeeding at Western States?
Kilian:
Well, I think one of my weaknesses used to be heat adaptation, but I think I've been training that quite well. Saturday doesn't look like it will be the hottest day, but I feel confident in my heat management now.
And then there's the climbing. I'm usually good at climbing, so I might be able to use a little less energy than other runners, and I can make the race tough on the climbs. Conversely, I struggle on flats and non-technical descents, especially because of my injuries. So, I think it's good to know your strengths and weaknesses and use them to your advantage.
9. The true nature of overtraining is 'stress'
Host:
Can I ask you a question unrelated to Western States? One of my favorite podcasts you've been on was the one you did with Jack about 'how to become a professional cyclist / how to train.' I've been thinking about what you said there all weekend. The U20 Nationals and the Eagle race were held at Broken Arrow, and actually, Kyle Skaggs' son won.
Kilian:
Oh, that's amazing. That's great.
Host:
Yeah, it's awesome. That reminded me of what you said on Jack's podcast. You said, 'Within a certain age range, if you sleep well and eat well, overtraining is impossible.'
Kilian:
Yeah, I think so. If you're not doing anything stupid with recovery or sleep, you can really absorb a lot of training. As long as you have the energy to put in that effort.
In most cases, I think the thing we underestimate the most is stress. For many people who feel like they are overtraining, it's more about the stress outside of training than the training itself. When you consider people who have jobs, children, life stresses, and a myriad of other things going on, that consumes a lot of energy. Not just in terms of calories, but also in terms of hormonal changes and changes in the recovery process.
Usually, when you're young, you don't have much stress. Because not much is happening. That's why you can train 30 or 40 hours a week, as much as you want.
Host:
I see.
Kilian:
I realized that last year when I did the States of Elevation project. I don't know how many hours I was doing a week, maybe 100 hours a week. Even so, I was recovering properly. My neuromuscular system was certainly getting beaten up, but my metabolic system was getting better and better.
And for me, that was like a vacation in a way. When I'm at home, I have three kids, there are all sorts of arrangements, and I don't sleep much. During the project, I was probably sleeping a little better than when I'm at home. When I finished running, I could rest in bed, get a few hours of sleep, and not have to think about anything else. No meetings, just running. So the stress level was much lower than in my daily life, and I was able to recover well.
Host:
Did you expect that something like 'my fitness is improving right now' would happen during States of Elevation?
Kilian:
No, I was surprised. I had a bit of a hunch. I could see that I was getting better metabolically from the project [in the Alps] the previous year. But still, after doing all that, I was a little surprised. Plus, it was just fun. It wasn't technical, and I didn't have to think about other things like in a race. So I think recovery really makes a big difference.
Host:
I was talking about this a bit jokingly, but one of my hypotheses was that 'adventures or projects lasting several weeks are almost like a death sentence.' That if you do them at the end of your career, you can't super-recover from them. But looking at you after States of Elevation now... it means there are people who can get wonderful stimulation from this and still produce surprising results in competition, right?
Kilian:
Yeah. Throughout my career, I've always done explorations and projects. If you give yourself time to recover, I think it's a great stimulus.
I often tell cyclists, 'Why don't you do a training camp where you train properly for two weeks at 5,000 meters in Tibet?' The problem isn't the stimulus itself, but where you place it. The competition schedule is too tight, and you can't secure that stimulus and that recovery time. The race schedule doesn't allow for it.
10. What I gained from States of Elevation
Host:
Do you think the performance of the entire top tier of competition could be higher if there were less pressure from racing? There are too many big races throughout the year, and almost everyone is expected to be in peak condition all the time. We almost witnessed many people get much better the year after the COVID-19 pandemic when there were no races, right?
Kilian:
But there are far fewer races now than there were 15 years ago. Back then, I was doing 15 races a year, and everyone else was too. Now, if someone says they are going to do both Western and UTMB, it sounds like a big deal. But 15 years ago, when I first did Western, I did a 10-day thing like the Pyrenees Crossing before that, and Western was a week later. Then I did Zegama, Gym, and other races... back then I was doing 10 races, 4 or 5 ultras, and a lot of short races and projects.
Today's top athletes do one big race for long distances, plus two or three secondary races. For short distances, it's a bit more, but they are racing much less than before. That's why they can perform so much better. In the past, I used to run various races almost every weekend and it was a lot of fun. But now, I can spend more time preparing for races.
11. Number of races, competitive level, and career length
Host:
Is the level of racing now more intense than when you were racing more frequently?
Kilian:
Yes. But the point is that everyone is doing the same thing. So, the feeling is the same. In the past, to come here to Western, I would have had another race before it, and I probably only had three weeks of preparation. But everyone was like that, so everyone felt at the same level. Now, everyone spends months preparing for a race. So the intensity is higher, but the timing of everyone's preparation is similar.
If someone came here now racing every weekend, they would say, 'Wow, the level is very different from what I expected,' and conversely, if someone 15 years ago had prepared properly for just one race, they would have won easily. But that's because the standard of competition at the time was that 'everyone races a lot.' It's different now, but everyone is still doing the same thing.
Host:
Do you think this will result in more people having long careers like yours?
Kilian:
I don't know. Regarding training preparation and the race itself, I think it could go either way. Some people have long careers without racing much, and some people run very little. So in the end, I think it's more about the mental aspect. The feeling of training for another year, carrying this pressure and expectation, and achieving your goals. That leads to motivation. What drives an athlete—it might be financial motivation, or it might just be because they love it. It could be many things. So, I think it's mental.
And now, young athletes are under more pressure from an earlier stage. When they start running well at 18 or 19, they think, 'I can make a living from this.' But the pressure from teams and social media is something that didn't exist when I started running. Back then, I just ran because I loved it, and I didn't get feedback from anyone. There was no media or social media. Run, go home, and that was it. Now, I think the pressure from the community and external factors is much more important for the length of a career.
Host:
So, while there is better science and better collective intelligence about the sport, it is being offset by the new pressure of social media—which creates external stress. So, there is more external stress than before, right?
Kilian:
Oh, exactly. And I think this can be said outside of sports as well. The next generation will suffer. When I think about how my children will grow up, they will grow up constantly being watched by everyone. It's a lot of pressure for anyone. 'You have to be someone,' 'You have to have this identity.' This is talked about now, but no one thought about it in the past. Because these external eyes didn't exist. Moreover, it's even more so for those in the spotlight, as people you don't know are watching you, and it can affect many people.
12. Nervousness, projects, and the choice to 'not publish'
Host:
Do you get nervous before a race?
Kilian:
That's a good question. Yeah, I don't get nervous anymore. Actually, that's a bit of a shame. I wish I could go back to the first few years. Back then, when I won a race, the emotion I got at the end was huge. Now, it's like, 'Oh, that was a good day.' Back then, I was very nervous. I felt the uncertainty, and I knew that if I got a good result, I would experience a great emotion.
Nowadays, I want to win the race, but I already know what that feels like. I've experienced it. So, I feel that same excitement and nervousness more often when I'm working on a project in the mountains before I set off. There are many more uncertainties there than in a race. In a race, I know whether it will go well or poorly, and either way, I know what it feels like, and there's nothing I can do about it. So, I feel a bit more activated than on a normal day, but that's about it.
And that is also why I can be smarter during a race. I don't make mistakes caused by nervousness, and I can judge what is happening a bit more calmly and rationally.
Host:
That's interesting. I think many new runners listening to this conversation would find it very intriguing that you want to feel that initial race nervousness, even if just occasionally.
Kilian:
Yeah, that's a wonderful feeling. Truly.
Host:
I got us off track earlier. Brett was about to start talking about Western States and your training for it. Sorry about that. Especially since Zegama, but even before that, throughout this preparation period for Western States, how do you decide which training to make public and which to keep private, and why do you do so?
Kilian:
There are many reasons. One is that depending on where I go, I don't want people to come there. I want to keep my trails as my own private space. Also, there are places where the landowners don't want people passing through, and it's not good to make those public.
Another reason is the pressure. If I make everything public, I feel like I'm expected to perform every day. I think it's part of social media culture; people feel like they have to perform every day and be in good shape, or show off good things every day. But training is a process, and not every session is a race. So, there's that, and there's also the lifestyle reason of wanting to train in places where there are no people.
Also, it depends on my mental state. This spring was a pretty tough time due to an accident and various other things. At times like that, I want to focus on my family, and while I do train, I don't want to think about social media. Making training public is, after all, social media.
13. Current state and how to deal with injuries
Host:
Returning to this year's Western States in that vein—a question I should have asked—how are you feeling right now?
Kilian:
I'm doing okay. I've been resting for most of this week, and there's not much to do. It's like a vacation. So I feel good. Metabolically, I feel like I'm in the best shape. My knee still hurts, but that's something I've known about for a while, and I'll see how it manifests during the race. But I think I've done as much preparation as I could to get here.
Host:
You felt pain in your knee during the race last year too, right?
Kilian:
In training, yes. During the race, I was worried about it, but it never ended up coming. So, I held back a little bit at that time. I thought it might come, but it didn't, and I realized, 'Okay, 30 kilometers to go, I can do this.'
Host:
Looking back over the last 10 or 15 years, have you ever entered a race with a significant injury and still managed to win?
Kilian:
Yes, many, many times.
Host:
Which one are you most proud of?
Kilian:
I've done so many races... but for example, the last time I won [a major race], I had COVID and it affected me quite a bit. Also, I'm allergic to bees, and one year I raced after being stung and had to use a lot of strategy to win. Then there was the Limone Skyrace in the Skyrunning series, I think; there was a year I ran with two broken ribs.
Host:
That's terrible.
Kilian:
Yeah, it was terrible. It was a stupid thing; I was slacklining a week before the race, fell, and broke them. I thought, 'This is the worst, one week before the race.' But you get used to using your own strategy and knowledge about yourself. You know, 'I can push here, I can't push there.' So even if I'm injured, it doesn't make me extra nervous. I know what it's like, and I know there are things I can't do, but sometimes it works out. I think that's true for everyone with a lot of racing experience. It's almost never perfect. There's always something.
Host:
I was talking about this with Scott Jurek last night, and this year the start list is pretty intact; not many people are missing due to injury. But how many people are coming in at 100%, 90%, or 80%...
Kilian:
But it's a question of whether that's important. That's life. No one is at 100% at any point in their life. There's always something. That's reality, and athletes have to deal with it.
Lindsey Vonn was a good example at these Olympics. She competed with a major injury. That athlete last year also came in from a terrible state. But no one is complaining about it. That's life, and that's how sports are. You play with what you have, and you go for it. And sometimes, you win anyway. Because you played your cards well, or because everyone has something going on.
Host:
This is something we talked about in a previous episode—which do you think is better or worse: training hard to be as prepared as possible but arriving a bit beat up, or not pushing to the max and arriving fresh on race day but not fully prepared?
Kilian:
I think it's very individual. In my case, I like to train a lot, and I don't mind going into a race feeling a bit tired. Conversely, the skimo athlete I coach is the exact opposite; he needs to go into a race feeling super fresh.
Host:
Who do you coach?
Kilian:
Oriol Cardona. I'm part of a team of three coaches. He does some good running races, but he's the type who wants to go into a race feeling very fresh. He wants to be fresh, and I want to be a bit worn out. Everyone is different. It's more of a mental thing than a question of what's best.
14. The Pacer Debate—Are They Really Necessary for Top Athletes?
Host:
This is a question I have to ask. I asked Jim, and he's against pacers at Western States. Where do you stand? Are you for or against them?
Kilian:
Hmm, rather than for or against... I don't think pacers are necessary for races like this.
The reason pacers exist in the first place, I think, is for safety reasons. Sports have changed a lot. Fifty years ago, there were no spectators and few aid stations. So, problems were more likely to occur, and if something happened, you might have to wait three hours for someone to come and find you. There were wild animals, and it was easy to get lost. That's not the case anymore. The population density is high, and if a problem occurs, someone will notice within minutes. There are plenty of aid stations and filming crews as well. So, pacers aren't necessary for safety.
Also, I don't think people are cheating, but it provides an easy opportunity to cheat. You can have someone carry your gear or get food from them. So, it's not necessary, and I think it's actually a risk.
Personally, for a race like Hardrock—I don't think the lead pack needs them, but in the back of the pack, you might be exposed to lightning or blizzards at high altitude, and the gaps between people are larger, so it might make more sense. But for races like this, especially for the top—athletes finishing in under 24 hours—I don't think safety pacers are necessary.
Host:
Will you use a pacer this year?
Kilian:
No, I won't use a pacer. However, a few people might accompany me to film content. Eluse(*) is staying here this week... I don't know when he's going to Canada. He has a race next week and is in the area. So, I think he'll be filming.
15. The Meaning of Victory—Only 'Time' Changes People
Host:
Two more. I have a passage I wrote down from your blog. It's roughly the content, but you wrote that "rewards fade with repetition, but the cost of losing becomes heavier." At this point in your career, does winning still feel good? Or does it feel more like "relief that you didn't lose"?
Kilian:
No, it feels good. Winning a race feels good. A few years ago, I might have felt it was "relief that I didn't lose." But today is different. Because it's just a game, right? We race, and how much importance does that really have? We are just there to have fun and try to push ourselves.
For the ego, you might be a little happier the day after a good result. But the experience itself that I want to savor is the same. I want to experience the process of changing my body and abilities through training. And achieving that, the experience of the race itself—that is gained regardless of the result. So in the end, you might be a little happier if you win, but...
This might be easier to understand when doing mountain projects. I always think, "I want to have a transformative experience." I've done things that push me to every limit. But when I come back, I'm exactly the same person. I haven't really transformed at all. What really brings transformation is the passage of time.
So, I don't think, "If I do that, achieve this goal, win this race, do this climb, and stand on the summit, I can become someone else, I can change." From morning to night, regardless of the result, I am the same person. What changes is the years of process it takes to get there. So, winning, or the motivation to try to win, is just that "something" I'm looking for. But reaching it isn't what's important. The driving force that makes you want to head there is what matters.
Host:
So, for you on Saturday, victory is not the only metric of success?
Kilian:
Yeah. For me, success on Saturday is... of course, at the starting line, I think, "I want to win the race, I'll do my best to win." But success can be found in many places. For me now, I look at how I felt during the race, how the nutrition was, how the heat management was, how the injury management was. Whether those little things went well.
This can go both ways. There have been times when I won a race but didn't feel it was a success. Because I made a lot of mistakes or had various problems. Often, victory masks a lot of things that didn't go well. Conversely, even if I didn't win the race because other athletes were strong, there were times when I executed my best and gave it my all. So, it's a double-edged sword.
Host:
One last question from me. Before this episode, I asked listeners for requests on "what do you want to ask Kilian?" The most common one was—what is your favorite trail running meme account right now?
Kilian:
Wow, that's a tough one. I won't answer that for now. There are good accounts here (in America), and in Italy and France too. It depends on what kind of humor you like. Whether you like dry, sarcastic, or something more straightforward. But I think it's a good era. At least we take what we do very seriously, and we want to perform well and train well. But at the same time, everyone understands that "this is just a sport, it's for fun." So we don't convince ourselves that "I'm doing something important." These meme pages are a good thing that reminds us of that.
16. Finally—meme culture and having fun
Host:
It's good that even as our sport continues to professionalize, there's still fun in it, right?
Kilian:
Yeah, that's the most important thing. Otherwise, you have to ask yourself why you're doing it.
Host:
Kilian, thank you so much for today. Needless to say, I'm really looking forward to following your race on Saturday. Finally, is there anything you'd like to say to our listeners and viewers?
Kilian:
Well, what I want to tell everyone is—I want you to enjoy the race. And I want you to be grateful to the organizers who make it possible. We just run the race, but there are people who work for a year to make it happen. It wouldn't be possible without the people who maintain the trails and do everything that needs to be done.
So, enjoy it and savor it. And I want you to cherish being present in the moment—both the good moments and the tough ones. I want you to experience every moment of the race. Even in the moments when you're suffering, in two or three weeks from today, you'll look back on those moments as fond memories. So, please enjoy it.
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