[Tell Me About Your 2000s] Guest 2: Masanobu Saito of Jagamond (Part 3)

A series where Akio Kanno invites various guests totalkabout the 2000s. Our second guest is Masanobu Saito, who handles the straight-man role in the comedy duo Jagamond and is active in the media as a "film introducer." In (Part 3), Kanno, from the music side, and Saito, from the film side, discuss how they first encountered the TBS Radio show "RHYMESTER Utamaru's Weekend Shuffle." Links to (Part 1) and (Part 2) are below.

Kanno: There's a topic I really want to discuss with you, Saito-kun, and that's Utamaru-san.

Saito: I see.

Kanno: I'd like to talk about how our perceptions of Utamaru-san are completely different. For me, I recognized him as an MC for the hip-hop group RHYMESTER, and the shock of hearing that he was going to have his own show on TBS Radio—that was 18 years ago.

Saito: That's true.

Kanno: And you probably had a completely different way of discovering him, right? Did you first learn about Utamaru-san through film?

Saito: Exactly. Around 2009 or 2010, a senior at my university told me, "If you like movies, you absolutely have to listen to this," and that's how I found out about "RHYMESTER Utamaru's Weekend Shuffle."

Saito: At the time, the only Japanese rap I knew was RIP SLYME or KREVA, so, if I may be blunt, I didn't even know who RHYMESTER were. I started listening during the "The Cinema Hustler" segment.

Kanno: Were you already into film criticism back then?

Saito: Personally, I had been buying and reading a magazine called "Kinema Junpo" since I was in high school, but I wasn't really into the culture of a third party who doesn't make films criticizing them. Well, that's exactly what I'm doing now, though (laughs).

Kanno: If the Saito of back then saw the Saito of today, he'd think, "Who is this guy?" (laughs)

Saito: Exactly. I'd think, "You have nothing to do with this" (laughs). But through that Utamaru-san radio show, I heard people like Yoshiki Takahashi, Tomohiro Machiyama, and Hawk Terasawa, and that was the first time I felt it was cool for people who weren't involved in making the films to talk about them so innocently.

Saito: Whether or not that counts as criticism aside, the radio show was what taught me that you could talk about movies this much and turn it into entertainment.

Kanno: There is that difference, isn't there? If you compare Utamaru-san to Mount Fuji, it's like whether you climb from the Shizuoka side or the Yamanashi side. I think you and I had completely opposite starting points.

Saito: Yeah, we're at opposite ends.

Kanno: For me, RHYMESTER played a huge role in how I came to love music. As I was saying earlier, if there's someone singing with their eyes closed, looking all dreamy, rap felt like a way of singing that would hit that person with a paper fan.

Saito: I see.

Kanno: And for me, Utamaru-san was the leading rapper who was argumentative, explanatory, and wordy. His style of rapping and the content of his lyrics suited my temperament. So, it's from a straight-man's perspective. It was pleasant to listen to. And this connects to what I said earlier, but once you've made it, there are many things you can no longer sing about. You're no longer in a position where you have an enemy to defeat.

Saito: That's right, we're back to the same point as before. That applies to film criticism too; the old Utamaru-san used to bash Japanese films left and right. Like a professional scammer.

Kanno: I can still remember laughing until I cried at the review of the movie 'ROOKIES: Graduation' (laughs).

Saito: That's right (laughs). Also, the way movies like 'SPACE BATTLESHIP YAMATO' were harshly criticized was a product of the times, wasn't it? There was a certain pleasure for the listeners in hearing someone secretly badmouth a Japanese film that was being sold by a major corporation and becoming a hit late at night. That was the atmosphere at the time, where everyone was thinking to themselves, 'Japanese movies are boring, aren't they?' It was like no one was saying it, or rather, there was no one at the center to say it for us.

Kanno: Well, that makes sense, since it's a thankless role (laughs).

Saito: And what was good about Utamaru-san was that he had this persona on public airwaves where he'd say, 'The staff is making me do this.' He'd roll dice to decide which of the movies the staff had chosen he would review. Now that I'm on the side of talking about movies on YouTube, I think—and this is something I try not to do—there are these 'hit-and-run' movie channels. YouTubers who seem to use movies just to complain about them.

Kanno: Like 'citizen arrest' style YouTubers, but for movie reviews.

Saito: Exactly. The difference between them and Utamaru-san is that Utamaru-san was also a victim; he was forced to work within the framework of a movie chosen by a roll of the dice from six designated films, and he paid to see them himself, and even watched them two or three times for the sake of the review, so he functioned as a kind of 'hit-and-run' critic. I think that was brilliant as a way of presenting it. But Utamaru-san himself ended up having influence. At first, I think it was like a rapper just saying whatever he wanted, but now it's a daytime show and the time slot has moved earlier, right? So, he hardly ever does movies that might step on landmines anymore. Well, that makes sense.

Kanno: It's becoming unacceptable due to the times, too. In the first place, I understand why it changed from 'Tamaful' to 'After 6 Junction 2' and why there's an announcer sitting next to him now. Even Yoshida Go-san says, 'There are quite a few moments when you listen to the early episodes of Tamaful that make you go, whoa.'

Saito: I think so too. There are many things that would be considered 'out' now. But we were influenced by that sense of secrecy late at night, like, 'I never knew there was an angle like that to criticize something!'

Kanno: In a broad sense, that's comedy, isn't it? Because we were watching the art of movie review performance.

Saito: As I talk about movies on YouTube, it's not like I'm the next Utamaru-san, but there's this feeling that someone has to express the dissatisfaction everyone has toward movies. That shouldn't have been necessary originally, but thanks to Utamaru-san, I think it's become necessary for the person who comes next.

Kanno: It was named, and a framework was created.

Saito: Exactly. I don't really feel like I'm aiming for that, but there's this feeling that as a YouTuber, I have to take on that role. If there's a super boring movie released in the world, Utamaru-san used to handle it, but now he doesn't. When that happens, I think it becomes the YouTuber's turn. But, and this can't be helped, everyone is an amateur. They aren't people active on the main stage like Utamaru-san; amateurs are becoming YouTubers. So, I don't think they can fully carry that weight.

Kanno: It's an era where it's touted that 'anyone can do it,' but I think, 'it's not that anyone can do it.'

Saito: The platform is there, but you can't do the same thing.

Kanno: The ring is prepared, but whether that person actually has the ability or the muscle is surprisingly often ignored.

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