Succeeding a long-standing fish paste shop at 24 and running it for 36 years: The 3rd generation owner of Masudaya in Tateishi, where cheerful conversations with customers never cease

《Preface》
Hello everyone. Today's speaker is Mr. Nakayama, the manager of Masudaya, a shop that has been producing and selling fish paste products like oden ingredients for 92 years in my local neighborhood of Tateishi, Katsushika Ward.
Starting this year, I wanted to interview people who have been working hard in my local area and write articles about them. When my neighbor and friend, Mr. Kiyota, mentioned he knew the manager of Masudaya, I decided to make him my first local interviewee, and this article is the result.
Mr. Nakayama's story was filled with the background, reasons, and feelings behind his journey, as if he understood exactly what I was looking for as a writer, so I feel I was able to conduct a great interview in a short amount of time. Mr. Nakayama also told me, "It was good to be able to look back on my own history through this experience," so I would like to send my gratitude to Mr. Nakayama and to Mr. Kiyota for introducing me to Masudaya. Mr. Nakayama has strived not only to promote the quality of the fish paste products he sells but also to build heartfelt relationships and create a comfortable shop by learning about each customer's personality and hobbies through conversation. I was surprised to hear that when his father fell ill and he suddenly took over as the third-generation owner, he didn't even know how to make the fish paste products he was selling. It was fortunate that two craftsmen who had previously worked under his grandfather taught him how to make them, but he lacked the confidence to sell what he had made. The story of how he gave his products away for free to customers to get their feedback reflects his sense of responsibility—that a specialty shop dating back to his grandfather's generation could not sell subpar goods for money—and especially his deep care for his customers. I imagine it took courage to ask for feedback, as he knew that if a customer thought, "This tastes different from the previous generation's" or "This isn't good," they might stop coming to the shop, but I could strongly feel the manager's desire to know the judgment of the customers who buy his products above all else.
Through this interview, I felt that Mr. Nakayama, who strives to warmly welcome customers to his shop and engage in conversation and service, is a shop manager overflowing with humanity. Now, I will take you to "Masudaya," a fish paste shop in the downtown area of Tateishi, Katsushika, where fun conversations with customers echo. Please listen to the history of this long-standing shop as told by the manager, Mr. Nakayama.

❒ Tateishi, a downtown area that retains the atmosphere of the Showa era
I am Takashi Nakayama of Masudaya, where we manufacture and sell oden ingredients and other fish paste products in Tateishi, Katsushika Ward, located at the eastern edge of Tokyo between the Arakawa and Edogawa rivers.
Tateishi is known for being centered around Keisei-Tateishi Station, which also connects to the Toei Asakusa Line. It is home to administrative agencies such as the ward office, Symphony Hills (cultural center), and the tax office, as well as shopping streets like Nakamise-dori and Ekimae-dori, and is famous for its dense concentration of drinking establishments that retain the atmosphere of the Showa era.
On the north side of the station, construction work for the elevation of the Keisei Line, the relocation of the ward office, and the building of tower blocks has been underway since 2023, and Tateishi is about to change significantly.

❒ A fish paste shop that has been open for 92 years
My shop, Masudaya, is located along the Okudo Highway, which you reach after passing through the Ekimae-dori shopping street at the south exit of Tateishi Station or the adjacent Nakamise shopping street.
Masudaya was opened by my grandfather in Azabu in 1934 (Showa 9) and moved to its current location in 1948 (Showa 23). It has been 92 years since it opened, and I am the third generation, born here in Tateishi in 1966 (Showa 41).

❒ Grandfather opened the shop in Azabu
I heard from my father about the time the shop opened. In the early Showa era, my grandfather and two acquaintances gathered in a place called Masubayashi in Saitama Prefecture and discussed starting a fish paste shop. In 1934 (Showa 9), my grandfather opened the shop in Azabu. The name "Masudaya" was chosen by taking the "Masu" from Masubayashi and the "da" from the fact that there were many rice paddies around Masubayashi.
I haven't heard why he chose to have a shop in Azabu. Nowadays, everyone thinks of it as a high-class area in the city center, but I don't think it was a bustling place in the early Showa era, and perhaps it was because it was close to the Tsukiji Market, where he could purchase fish as ingredients.

❒ Moved to current Tateishi in 1948 (Showa 23)
We moved from Azabu to Tateishi in 1948 (Showa 23), but for one year before coming to Tateishi, we rented a house in Komatsugawa, Edogawa Ward, and did business there. When we moved to Tateishi, a large group of people—my grandfather, grandmother, father, his four siblings, live-in employees, and several craftsmen—all lived in one house.

❒ A perishable fish preservation food that originated in Southeast Asia
It is said that the practice of processing fish into fish paste began in Southeast Asian countries like Vietnam and Thailand. The climate is close to the equator, with heavy rainfall, making fish spoil easily, right? So, they crushed the fish, added salt, and fried it to make it storable.
In Japan, it is written in books from the early Edo period that people would crush fish, attach it to branches, and grill it to eat. It's like the chikuwa we have today. Fish paste shops buy fish that fishmongers couldn't sell at very low prices to use as ingredients for fish paste.

❒ Fish paste shops in Tokyo have decreased to about one-tenth of what they were in the 1970s
In the 1970s, there were about 300 fish paste shops in Tokyo. Among them, there were over 50 shops calling themselves "Masudaya." Some used kanji like "桝" or "益," while others used hiragana "ますだや" or katakana "マスダヤ."
However, since the beginning of the Heisei era, many foods that weren't available before have become accessible, and I think the decrease in rice consumption is also a factor, but now the number of fish paste shops in all of Tokyo has decreased to about 25, which is less than one-tenth. The number of shops calling themselves "Masudaya" has also dropped to five.

❒ Worked at my father's shop and decided to become a fish paste maker in high school
My shop is in its third generation, but there is a fish paste shop in Nihonbashi called Kamaboko that has been around for 18 generations. The 17th-generation president of that shop was my father's mahjong friend. Partly because of what my father was told by that president, I ended up enrolling in a private elementary school in Kudan. Because of that, I didn't have any classmates in my local neighborhood, so I felt lonely when I was young.
I decided to become a fish paste maker like my father when I was in my first year of high school. At that time, I helped out at my father's shop like a part-time job, and I became interested in it. My father was a fish paste maker, and my maternal grandfather was a lumber merchant in Tateishi, so I think I became interested in making things.

❒ Enrolled in Tokai University in Shizuoka to get away from my mother
So, I thought I would just start working after graduating from high school, but my father told me to go to university. In that case, I wanted to get away from my mother, who was strict with me, and I liked biology, so I thought I would go to the School of Marine Science and Technology at Tokai University in Shizuoka. Then, I, who thought I could never get into university, actually passed the entrance exam.
When I was a student, I didn't study and just did the skiing I loved. Perhaps because of that, when I wrote my graduation thesis and submitted it to the professor, I had a hard time because he told me to rewrite it many times.

❒ Suddenly took over my father's shop without knowing how to make fish paste
I graduated from university in 1989 (the first year of Heisei), but I didn't return to my father's shop and worked at another fish paste shop instead. I wanted to look at the shop from the outside once. After working there for a year, my father fell ill in May, so I suddenly returned to this shop and took over my father's work at the age of 24.
However, at that time, I had a fatal problem that prevented me from becoming a fish paste shop owner just like that. Even though I had worked at my own shop, I had never been taught how to make it, so I couldn't make fish paste. At the shop I worked at before, I did customer service, such as selling products at department store counters, so I didn't do any manufacturing. Then, two craftsmen who had previously worked under my father and had their own shops in Higashi-Yotsugi and Ayase gratefully came to this shop for three months and taught me for my sake.

❒ Lacking confidence to sell, I had customers eat the products I made for free
Thanks to them looking after me, I managed to learn how to make fish paste, but I couldn't have confidence in what I made myself. Since I couldn't take money from customers coming to the shop, for a while, I gave away what I made for free and asked for their feedback. That's how I finally managed to start selling. Even if I couldn't sell anything, I still had to pay the employees' wages, so it was a struggle.

❒ Repaid the debts left by my father
What was difficult when my father collapsed was repaying the bank loans. I paid the money written on the invoices as they arrived, but I didn't know how much debt there was. My father said, "When I get better, I'll pay it back myself, and I'll make the fish paste myself," and he wouldn't tell me he was leaving it to me. My father passed away in October of that year, and I realized how much debt there was. Even so, I managed to pay it off in about 5 to 6 years.

❒ Purchase frozen surimi of 4 types of fish, grind and blend them, and add salt to cook
Well, let's talk about the ingredients and processing of fish paste here. Previously, we fish paste makers would buy unsold fish from the market, put them in a container with holes, and press them hard to extract the meat through the holes to use as surimi. Parts that aren't used, like bones, gills, and fins, remain in the container. But now, frozen surimi is sold, so we buy that. Fish paste makers grind it further, add salt, shape it, and then fry or grill it.

Since we started using frozen surimi, we no longer have the trouble of making surimi ourselves. So, we don't have to buy from the market every day. Frozen surimi was already available about 60 years ago, as my father used it too.
About 20 types of fish are mainly sold as frozen surimi, but the products I make use four types of fish: Alaska pollock, threadfin bream, croaker, and goatfish. All four types are caught abroad, processed into surimi, and imported into Japan. Previously, I also added Atka mackerel because it was delicious, but due to a poor catch over the last two years, I haven't been able to get it. Some people make it with only one type of fish, and I think a truly skilled craftsman can make delicious things that way, but I don't know how they do it.
In the past, the fish caught would gather at Tsukiji Market, and when a large amount of fish entered the market, the price would crash each time. Now, because of planned shipments, prices are determined at the production market rather than the consumer market. So, there are no items that crash in price and become cheap, but we can purchase them at stable prices.

❒ Surimi prices are stable due to planned shipments, but are rising due to the popularity of crab sticks overseas
In Europe and America, there are ham and sausages, but I have rarely seen fish-based products. Therefore, I think it's safe to say it's an Asian food.
The only exception among those fish paste products is crab sticks, which are popular not only in Japan but also around the world. The demand for fish as a raw material for fish paste was overwhelmingly high in Japan, but after crab sticks appeared, there was demand overseas as well, and because it was something unusual, overseas demand increased, leading to a shortage and price hikes in Japan.

❒ Fish quality changes due to seawater temperature, etc., so processing recipes for fish paste cannot be created
Nowadays, with the gourmet boom, various cooking recipes are introduced on TV and the internet, right? But there are no recipes for making fish paste.
As for fish, when the seawater temperature drops, the amount of fat increases, so the quality of the meat differs between cold and hot times. It also differs depending on the temperature of the tap water used during manufacturing. Fish with a lot of fat are delicious when grilled. At a fish paste shop, we determine the state of the meat by touching the fish we bought with our hands. If you judge the state of the fish by touch, the finished product will match it. We change the amount of salt used slightly by looking at the state of the fish meat.
Even so, I have never thought of myself as a craftsman. I want to remain a manager of a small business to the end.

❒ Fish paste doesn't even make it into the top 5 popular oden ingredients
Now, I would like to have a quiz here. What is the most eaten ingredient in oden? The answer is daikon radish.
Daikon radish has been the undisputed number one from the past to the present. Following that are shirataki, kelp, eggs, and so on. Looking at it this way, fish paste products don't even make it into the top 5. Even though fish paste is a commonly eaten ingredient in oden, this is the reality. As someone who manufactures and sells with a fish paste shop sign, I find it very regrettable.
Fish paste is a high-protein, low-calorie food. I hope many people will learn about its benefits and eat more fish paste than ever before.

❒ I would be happy if people came to buy because Masudaya's products are delicious
Oden ingredients sold at supermarkets and the like are standard items such as satsuma-age, tsumire, kelp, and eggs, and there are few varieties, but at a fish paste shop, we make many products by adding various vegetables and fish. At my shop, we make about 40 types of oden ingredients when we are busy.

I have made some unusual products in the past by adding various things. When I was in my 40s and 50s, I made a satsuma-age (fried fish cake) that was a huge hit. I bought small matsutake mushrooms from a greengrocer and put them in the fish cakes. I stopped when the price of matsutake went up, but for a while, customers would ask, 'Don't you have any matsutake?'
It's great when customers tell me it's delicious, but I think what people perceive as delicious varies depending on their home dining environment, physical condition, and other factors. Therefore, I don't mind if people say that products from supermarkets or other shops are better. In that context, I am grateful when customers come to buy from us saying, 'Masudaya is delicious!'

❒ Customer numbers drop drastically in summer, leading to a significant decrease in sales
At a fish cake shop, the number of products inevitably decreases in the summer. Because they spoil easily in the hot season, there are products that just won't sell. Fish cake shops do well in the cold winter because of the high consumption of oden, but in the hot summer, the number of customers drops drastically, making it an unprofitable business. Sales on the busiest day in winter and the slowest day in summer can differ by as much as 30 times.

❒ Aiming for a shop where I can work alone and build the best relationships with customers
Right now, I am the only one working in the shop, so I can manage somehow. After my father died, my mother and aunt worked in the shop for about 10 years, but when I rebuilt the shop in 2009 (Heisei 21), I renovated it so that I could do it alone.
However, I do have one female employee who helps with manufacturing and other tasks. Actually, her mother worked at the shop since my father's generation. Even after I became the shop manager at a young age, she supported me for five years when I lacked experience. When she retired, she asked me, 'Please let my daughter, who also worked part-time at this shop, work in my place.'
I have been able to keep the shop going because I was helped by the people who worked at the shop during my grandfather's and father's generations, as well as the two people who taught me how to make fish cakes. I am grateful. I also feel I must be thankful to my grandfather and father.
It has been 36 years since I took over this shop as the third-generation owner, but I have never wanted to quit.
Since I turned 50, I have started thinking about how to achieve great results with little effort, without putting in too much labor. What I keep in mind is a 'bright shop.' I don't mean bright lighting. That is important too, but I believe it is essential that our hearts connect and that customers feel comfortable coming to this shop.

❒ My role model is the customer service of the proprietress of a robatayaki restaurant I visited as an elementary school student
When I was in elementary school, my maternal grandfather took me to a robatayaki restaurant in Kamakura several times. The proprietress there was someone who would say kind words tailored to each individual customer. Even to me, who only went about once a year, she would say, 'You're in the sixth grade now, aren't you?' I was happy that she remembered even me, an elementary school student.
Because of this experience, I have tried to emulate that proprietress in my own shop. I think it's amazing that she never forgot her customers, and although it's one of my own special skills, I have never said 'Maido!' (Always a pleasure) to a first-time customer. I try to be considerate in fostering trust while maintaining an optimal relationship with each and every customer.

❒ I talk to customers about everything without hiding anything
More than anything, I, as the owner, want to provide pleasant customer service by putting myself in the customers' shoes. There are shops and companies that won't teach you how they make their products, calling it a trade secret, but I try to answer honestly whatever customers ask me.
For customers who think oden is best when boiled thoroughly, I often share information such as: while it is good to boil daikon radish and konjac well to let the flavor soak in, and to boil kelp well to extract the dashi, fish cakes like satsuma-age and tsumire are better if not boiled too much. When I share such information with customers, I tell them when they leave, 'I'm not charging you for the information.'
I also talk a lot about what customers are interested in or their hobbies, so I think I have been able to build relationships where I can get to know individual customers. That's fun, which is why I've been able to keep going.

❒ Providing services that delight customers, such as adding extra oden broth
I try to add extra products for customers, and when they buy oden, I put about three ladles of broth into the plastic bag. Doesn't everyone get happy when you do that? When I give the oden broth to the customer, it also has the benefit for the shop that we can add new dashi to the oden simmering in the shop, allowing us to constantly sell delicious oden.

❒ Individual shops allow you to get to know your customers and deepen exchanges
Speaking of long-time customers of the shop, an elderly man just came to buy some earlier, right? He is a third-generation customer who comes to buy without fail once a week. I wonder if he eats oden even when it's hot, but it seems Tuesday, when he often comes, is his day to eat oden. Among our oldest customers, there are even fourth-generation customers. Half of the customers who come are from the local area, and the other half are from far away.
You can't know what kind of people the customers are at supermarkets and the like, but at an individual shop, you can interact closely with customers, which makes me happy.

❒ Gradually increasing my days off and continuing the shop for about another 10 years
I don't have children, and this shop will end with my generation. Even if I had children, I wouldn't want them to do it because fish cake shops have a drastic drop in customers in the summer, which lowers profits. I think it would be good if I could run the shop for another 10 years, until I'm about 70. If I force myself to keep working and end up ruining my health, it would be a waste when I think about what comes after. Therefore, I want to find ways to gradually increase my days off as I get older.

❒ Closing the shop in the summer to enjoy a cruise ship voyage
At my wife's suggestion, I took a long break in the summer of 2018 (Heisei 30) and experienced a trip around Japan on a cruise ship with her for the first time. I had an image that there would be many wealthy passengers and that I would have to wear high-class clothes, but I didn't worry about that, and it was more fun than I expected.
To go on such a trip, you have to close the shop for a week or 10 days. There is, of course, resistance to closing the shop for that long. I also had feelings of whether it was okay for us to enjoy ourselves while inconveniencing our customers. But I thought I might be able to gain experiences I hadn't had before during the summer when there are few customers, so I decided to go.
On a cruise, there are many times when you do nothing but gaze at the sea, but I felt that was a luxurious time. You can completely detach from work and reset yourself.
Before taking a travel vacation, I tell my customers, 'I will be closing the shop because I'm going on a cruise.' If I suddenly close for several days, people will definitely ask 'What happened?' later, so I have to explain it from the beginning. If I tell them beforehand, I don't have to explain the reason for the closure and can talk about the trip instead, which makes the conversation move forward and is fun.
When I was talking about my fun cruise trip, a customer who also travels by cruise ship appeared. Before they left, I told them, 'You don't have to worry about anything, so just relax and enjoy yourself,' and after they returned, they came to the shop and thanked me, saying, 'It was truly fun. You were right, Masudaya-san.' They were so hooked on cruise ship travel that they booked their next cruise as soon as they got off.
I have also been to the Mediterranean and Alaska on cruise ships in the last two years. I can't speak English, so I sometimes run into trouble, but since there are leftovers in the summer when there are few customers, I would rather prioritize going on a cruise and picking up fun stories to talk about with my customers again than staying in the shop with a sour face.

❒ Planning a cruise ship trip to go with my 83-year-old mother
When I was young, I went to a university in Shizuoka to get away from my strict mother, but living alone was hard, and I felt grateful for my parents' presence. My mother, to whom I hadn't expressed my gratitude until now, is already 83 years old, so when I asked her if she would like to go on a cruise ship trip, she said she was interested, so I am planning to take her on a cruise ship trip around Western Japan next time.
The reason Masudaya has been able to continue for 36 long years even after someone like me became the owner is thanks to my grandfather, the first generation, and my father, the second generation, who pioneered and sowed the seeds. I want to continue to work hard so that I can remain a comfortable shop that brings joy to customers, without ever forgetting my gratitude.