Interview with Tokyo Gakugei University Vice President: Changing Education with the Keyword 'Explay!' (Part 2)

Explayground An interview with Macchan (Keiji Matsuda, Vice President of Tokyo Gakugei University), who leads the way at . In this second installment, Macchan talks about why he advocates for 'play studies,' the significance of play, and the content of research activities that Explayground will promote and support in the future.

<Click here for the first article>

■ People can play seriously because it's okay to fail

- By the way, what is your reasoning for finding significance in the study of play, Macchan?

Looking back at my childhood memories, I really hated having my play restricted. When a child says, 'I want to play,' most parents say things like, 'Did you do your homework?' or 'You can play after you finish your homework,' right? I was also scolded, being told, 'You shouldn't just play all the time,' and it felt like play was being treated as something bad, and children had to explain why they wanted to play. I felt uncomfortable with that.
So, when I entered the university's Faculty of Education, I happened to meet a professor who was thinking about something like a revolution in education through play, and since then, I have been involved in the study of play.

- Do children today not have enough play?

It's not just that they don't have enough; it's being lost. I think play is a world where 'it's okay to fail.' There are many games that are fun precisely because you don't know if you can do them. For example, building blocks are like that. Even if you try to stack them high, they might come crashing down halfway through. But even if you fail like that, no one scolds you, right?
Even if failure is not allowed in daily life, it is okay to fail in the extraordinary world of play, and that is why people play seriously. Because it's okay to fail in the first place, it leads to saying, 'Let's do it one more time.'
It is often misunderstood, but 'serious' and 'not serious' are not words that distinguish between 'play' and 'things that are not play.' There is seriousness within play, and of course, there is also a lack of seriousness; rather, the existence of an extraordinary world different from daily life brings courage and energy to humans, and what is nurtured there can sometimes be useful after returning to daily life.
However, now the whole society feels like 'if you fail once, you're out,' and in that situation, play is unlikely to occur. Even if there is 'distraction' or 'relief,' that is just one aspect of play.

- Why has society become like that?

As one reason, I think the change in the information environment is significant. With the spread of the internet and so on, it has become possible to reach the correct answer immediately, and it has become a daily routine to act after obtaining information.
When there was talk of going out to eat lunch with students, I liked to walk around aimlessly and look for a delicious-looking restaurant, and even if I failed as a result, I would take it lightly, saying, 'Well, that's okay,' but students today search and try to choose a highly-rated restaurant. So there are few misses. But this means matching actions to information, and I think it is an attitude at the opposite extreme of play. Also, now that a 'record' is uploaded to the internet once, it is a society where 'the past does not disappear' semi-permanently, so the feeling that 'it would be terrible if I failed' at such a time becomes incredibly strong, doesn't it?

- Is it difficult to teach the fun of accidental encounters to the digital native generation who have had the internet close to them since they were old enough to understand things?

It's very difficult. When I go to education-related seminars or exhibitions and ask students, 'Let's go together,' very few people really jump on it and say, 'I'll go.' That may be partly because they are busy with various plans, but it seems they don't want to participate in things where they don't know if there is a merit for them. To avoid wasted effort or failure as much as possible.

■ School education that turned sports into physical education

- If such a trend spreads throughout society, does it become harder for children to play?

I think it's a state where they can't play even if they are interested. Because play is another name for 'margin.' When there is no margin in society, it becomes difficult for children to play.
And play requires others. Playing house is typical, but if the people around you don't do it with you, group playing house won't be established. If you can't find others well, or if others don't actively join in the play, it's hard to play.
In that sense, as other researchers point out, I think video games are a device that secures a few play opportunities for children. Because inside the game screen, there are pseudo-others called characters, and they rescue children into the field of play. Generally, in the educational world, video games are often treated as villains, though.

- There are many children who do sports like lessons, but does that not necessarily coincide with play?

That's right. Originally, sports are play; for example, if you say 'I play tennis' in English, 'play' means 'to play,' right? But in Japan, there are many cases where people do sports while having lost that spirit.
One reason for that is that schools have been involved in sports. In the West, sports are rooted in the local community, but in Japan, since school education was the medium when importing sports in the process of modernization, sports and physical education are nearly equal. There are few such countries.

- So education has transformed play.

A famous educator named John Dewey says, 'Play is a process, not a result.' While playing, you are not just interested in the result, but you are absorbed in a situation where you don't know whether you will win or lose. Instead of reaching a set goal efficiently, the goal itself keeps changing, and through such a process, a goal that was not even imagined at first can sometimes be achieved.
I think 'creation' probably refers to such a process. Thinking about it that way, it can be said that play is something that enriches life. Because most of life is a process.

■ Going Beyond the Norms of Seriousness and Frivolity to Pursue Interest

— Listening to you, I feel like I've come to understand the importance of incorporating more elements of play into education.

I mentioned 'everyday' and 'extraordinary' earlier, but there is also the term 'anti-everyday.' If being serious is the everyday, then being frivolous is the anti-everyday—doing away with everything valued in the everyday and acting like a contrarian.
However, those two are the same in the sense that they are both trapped by something. The norm that 'one must be serious' exists, and the anti-everyday is just rebelling against that.
Instead, the 'extraordinary' is about not even making the question of whether one is serious or not an issue in the first place. Many people think of play as a frivolous, anti-everyday activity, so it is quite difficult to explain the difference between 'anti' and 'extraordinary,' but play is about not having the perspective of whether something is serious or not.
Also, to add one more thing, what is important in play is whether it is 'interesting,' and the antonym of interesting is 'boring.' However, when talking about play, the word 'fun' often comes up, and some people say things like 'let's have fun with play.' But the antonym of 'fun' is 'painful,' as in the phrase 'joys and sorrows.' In other words, whether something is fun or painful is not the factor that determines whether it is play or not. For example, when doing the detailed work of building a plastic model, there are times when it is painful but interesting, right?
So, what does it mean to be 'interesting'? The original meaning of 'interesting' (omoshiroi) is 'the face becomes white,' which refers to 'the space in front of you opening up,' like that feeling when you are on a train and suddenly your field of vision expands as you pass through a tunnel. Thinking about it that way, you can see that finding something interesting is more difficult than finding something fun.

■ Wanting to Balance Dreams and Profits with Multi-faceted Thinking

— What kind of initiatives will you be promoting at Explayground in the future?

We are considering three types of projects. The first is a startup project, where we will hold club-like activities, events, lectures, and workshops to help university researchers (faculty and students), companies, government agencies, and various individuals, including children and seniors, collaborate and start new initiatives. It is a scene that prepares for 'encounters' where primitive 'learning = play' begins.
The second is an acceleration project, where we support the start of joint research with companies and government agencies, and the transformation of plans born from startups into projects. This is a scene where people get absorbed in what you might call 'institutionalized learning = play,' which is done with a certain purpose or outcome in mind.
And the third is an orchestration project, where we provide concrete solutions to educational issues spreading in society through organizational and cross-sectional initiatives, and support the widespread social implementation of the results born there. We also support programs and entrepreneurship that advance educational innovation by combining projects born from acceleration and promoting industry-government-academia-citizen collaboration. We are thinking of a scene where 'learning = play' in turn transforms real life.

— What kind of companies and organizations do you want to join you?

People who value freedom, after all. Play cannot happen unless you are free, so I hope many people who can share a free set of values that are not limited to the 'now' will gather. Zocchan has said that he wants to grow Explayground into the 'Silicon Valley of education,' and I feel exactly the same way.

— Even so, I think companies would also want economic benefits.

It's about whether it will be profitable, right? I am thinking about whether we can create a set of movements where profits are made and freedom is not lost. For example, while advancing initiatives that can expect a market and profits in the acceleration project, we would also have them support activities that are being done freely as a startup project.
For example, suppose you start an initiative to implement an AI image recognition system in a school, install cameras at the school gate and in classrooms, and manage children's attendance all at once. From the company's perspective, if this system becomes widespread, they can generate profits, and if they can earn profits, they can think about what else they can do with this system with free ideas. I hope it becomes a place where we can operate with such a package.
Of course, activities will not be sustainable if you only dream, and support from people and money is necessary to continue this place. However, the secret of play is to hold two things that seem incompatible, and I want to cherish the multi-faceted thinking of 'this will expand dreams' and 'this will make money.' Of course, play is also an activity bound by 'rules,' and you cannot play if manners and etiquette are not observed. I think each person needs to be aware of this at all times.

— What kind of initiatives have actually started moving?

Research on how to use smart speakers in education and creating teaching materials using virtual reality (VR) technology has begun. Research on creating 'playground equipment that goes beyond slides' with companies related to early childhood education has also begun.

— Is there anything you yourself would like to do at Explayground?

One is an experiment to 'change the whole school.' I am currently plotting to see if I can involve the elementary, junior high, and high schools attached to Gakugei University. I would like to create a school with an outrageous theme of creating the school of the future, where there are no timetables, no grade levels, where all skill-based subjects are taught by AI, and everyone gathers for physical education and music, yet the academic ability is incredibly high.

— Is that okay?

I am currently facing that problem of 'is that okay?' (laughs).
Another thing I want to do is related to the 'expansion of body consciousness,' which is something I was thinking about while researching video games. For example, when you are playing 'Super Mario Bros.,' there are times when you unconsciously transfer yourself into the Mario icon on the screen and move in sync with Mario's movements, right? That is because your body is synchronized with Mario at the level of consciousness, and I have always thought that it is an experience of having another body of your own inside a digital screen.
This means that I think there are times when the body expanded on the screen can also influence the flesh-and-blood self. Specifically, for example, dance. I cannot dance myself, and it is impossible even while watching instructional videos, but if there is an icon of my expanded body and a dance teacher's icon on the screen, and I am told to match my expanded self to the movements of the teacher icon, I feel that I might be able to do even complex movements unexpectedly well. If I can make the movements of the body on the screen input using my entire flesh-and-blood body, I think I will be able to dance in the same way.

— It sounds like it will be an amazing experience where you don't know which is the real one, your expanded self or your flesh-and-blood self.

Yes. If we can establish this principle, I think it can be used for various things.

— Thank you very much for talking with me today.

Thank you very much.

(End)

Keiji Matsuda
Vice President, Tokyo Gakugei University
Director, Tokyo Gakugei University Explayground Promotion Organization
Born in Wakayama Prefecture in 1962. His specialty is social consciousness theory focusing on education and culture, with an emphasis on sports sociology. He researches various play cultures and physical cultures from the perspective of social consciousness theory, and engages in practical collaborative work with educational settings through the development of educational personnel who bridge schools and society, as well as the development of sports education. His major books include 'Intersecting Bodies and Play: Cultural Sociology of Ambiguity' (2001, Sekaishisosha) and 'The Reality of Toys and Play: Phenomenology of the "Toy Kingdom"' (2003, ibid.).

Interview/Text by Motoi Akiyama, Photography by Yutaro Yamaguchi